Another Pogostemon Helferi Issue

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by Superman, 13 Jun 2008.

  1. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    The pogostemon helferi isn't really taking. I got some from George in the plants that he sent, but they disappeared rather quickly. I thought it was down to the fact that when introduced I wasn't dosing.

    So I bought some more a few weeks ago but they're going the same way - but slower.

    Details:
    Vision 180
    Dosing 5mls of TPN+ & EasyCarbo
    Standing Juwel T5's with reflectors.

    Here's some photos...

    One leaf showing something bad (going see through)
    2008-06-13001.jpg

    This shows one plant nearly gone!
    2008-06-13002.jpg

    Was chatting to LondonDragon on msn earlier and he suggested that I could be not dosing enough or that the lighting wasn't sufficient to penetrate down to the gravel?

    I would say it's similar to "crypt melt" but they're not crypts?!
     
  2. aaronnorth

    aaronnorth Member

    Messages:
    3,955
    Location:
    worksop, nottinghamshire
    My first thought is that you are not dosing enough, i dose 2.5ml on a 60l, i think you should be dosing about 9ml. Do you inject CO2? P.Helferi needs this to survive.
     
  3. TDI-line

    TDI-line Member

    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Yaxley, Peterborough
    I had a similar problem in my nano, i had just CRS in there, wasn't sure wether they had polished off the plant, or was just a lack of CO2. But the plant seemed to melt and disappear. :rolleyes:
     
  4. milla

    milla Member

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Leeds
    That looks just like what happens to vallis when you add too much excel - melt.
     
  5. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    I inject Co2 and my drop checker is yellow and has been for a few days now.
    I even reduced the bubble rate as it shot up to yellow really quickly after I started dosing EasyCarbo.

    Ok, so it might be that I'm not dosing enough.
    Will try and go for 9mls each day for TPN+

    Should I stop using EasyCarbo then as I've not had any new algae?
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Umm..wait a minute Easycarbo/Excel has absolutely no effect on a dropchecker. It only becomes CO2 when it is absorbed by the plant, not when it's outside. That means you need to check what reagent you are using in the dropchecker. Are you sure it's Bromo blue? Maybe you have KH reagent in there. Let me ask this: When the dropchecker shoots up to yellow are the fish gasping? if not then you have a ringer in the dropchecker. This disintegration is likely a CO2/flow issue. In any case you need to be dosing more TPN+.

    Cheers,
     
  7. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Thanks ceg

    I didn't know how the Easycarbo/Excel stuff worked with the plants to provide carbon.

    I've mixed up the reagent before with the kH one and make sure I don't ever again! Using 4dKH water, it went blue immediately. It doesn't go yellow straight away, took a few days and stayed at a nice green/blue for a day or so.

    I don't think my fish are gasping. They're swimming happily. Some do shoot upto the surface but that's because they think they've seen some food.
     
  8. aaronnorth

    aaronnorth Member

    Messages:
    3,955
    Location:
    worksop, nottinghamshire
    They do this sometimes to break the surface to allow gaseous exchange if there is not enough O2 in the water
     
  9. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes Easycarbo is just a type of sterilizing agent dissolved in water. Higher plants can break it down and reduce it to CO2 but algae don't have these mechanisms so it's toxic to them. If your fish are happily swimming around and not gasping then it is unlikely that your yellow dropchecker is giving you valid data. That means you can slowly increase the bubble rate. Fish don't breath like we do. Their gills are more like a radiator filled with blood instead of water. CO2 produce from their metabolism diffuses across the gill while oxygen from the water diffuses across the membrane in the opposite direction. However, if the CO2 concentration of the water is equal to or higher than the concentration in the blood then they can't get rid of their CO2 in their blood. Oxygen can still move across the gill membrane so oxygen levels do not affect this problem. CO2 is toxic and has to be gotten rid of but instead it stays in the blood and the cells die even if there is a ton of oxygen in the water.

    When the fish gasp at the surface this helps to move the co2 out across the membrane since the air bubble may have a lower CO2 concentration and this helps to get the blood CO2 out. That's why it's easy to wipe out your fish with too much CO2 in the water so you have to be careful. Clearly though you are not near that limit so you can increase the bubble rate by a few bubbles per second and hold it steady for a day or two - observe the fish and tweak a little bit more.

    Cheers,
     
  10. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Ok, will do that.

    Whats the best place to put the drop checker? I've got it diagonally from the filter output so that might not be helping?
     
  11. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Well, in my opinion, assuming that it's reading correctly, why not put it down at the bottom by the helferi? That's where the problem is so I reckon it ought to be as close to the area as possible. 8)

    Cheers,
     
  12. JamesM

    JamesM Member

    Messages:
    1,913
    Location:
    The BIG End, South Wales
    Move it around a bit from time to time to check you have the same co2 levels in each area you try it in..
     
  13. Superman

    Superman Member

    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Good idea batman.
     

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