Anubus on Bogwood

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by Hoejay, 14 Nov 2007.

  1. Hoejay

    Hoejay Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkshire
    How do I plant anubus on bogwood?

    I simply pushed the root into a large knot hole in the wood and pointed the rhizome in the directionI I want the leaves to propogate.

    I have moved the anubus from the substrate and planted it in the more prominant position. It did have a large amount of root growth which I trimmed and fitted into a large notch in the wood. Is this ok?

    The plant has been growing for about 6 months and has some black algae specks and black edges to the leaves which are like sand in texture and quite difficult to scrape off. Is this preventable, removable?

    Regards

    Neil
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    Typically, plants like anubias and ferns don't appreciate having their rhizomes covered at all. I would just use some thread to secure it to the wood. It sounds like that's what you did so it should be fine. Anubias is a slow grower and is really susceptible to algae. Black sounds like it could be BBA which is CO2 related. Any chance of getting a close up picture? What is your dosing scheme?

    Cheers,
     
  3. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    When you say CO2 related, is this compared to the light/other nutrient levels?

    If it's a low light tank with no CO2 injection is BBA inevitable?
     
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Beeky,
    The current thinking is that BBA normally is induced when the CO2 is too low for the amount of light being provided or if the levels are fluctuating say from high to low to high. I don't think it's inevitable because I've seen many low tech tanks without BBA. The low tech tanks that do get it normally are those where any combination of the following conditions occurr:

    1. lighting is too high.
    2. air bubbles are used which drive off the CO2.
    3. Water is changed regularly (new water from tap is CO2 laden which causes fluctuations in CO2 which triggers the spores).

    BBA spores are quick to respond to CO2 instability whereas higher plants are very slow to respond. If you changed the CO2 level during the photoperiod today the plants would not be able to respond until next week. Algal spores would respond tomorrow.

    Cheers,
     
  5. Hoejay

    Hoejay Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkshire
    I will get a picture this weekend.

    The anubas had been growing with its rhizome out of the substrate but was heavily shaded by another plant. The algae growth is not excessive, I was just wondering if it could be removed. Infact is it possible to eradicate algae problems wihout replacing the whole plant. I generally remove the most affected leaves and try to pull off any minor infestation.

    Will improving CO2 conditions erradicate problem areas. i.e will algae die off if I improved CO2 conditions?

    I've been making a few changes to the set up.

    I currently run pressuruised CO2 through Rhinox 5000 diffuser. I've upgraded and modified this system in the last month, and last weekend I changed the spraybar config to hopefully get more even distribution of CO2. I dose EI once per week after 50% water change (based on the lighting being low, approx 1.2wpg (US)). I am considering dosing same amounts 3x per week as per full EI.

    On a slight tangent my water pH was significantly different after water change for several hours last weekend. ( test kit pH7.4 dKH5 dGH5 ) The differences were I added the tap to tank with a hose pipe after adding Ro to the tank rather than mixing the tap and Ro first using buckets. and adjusted the spraybar. The drop checker also indicated low CO2 (blue dkH4) for several hours, normaly the colour change happens much sooner.

    I'm assuming that with my original set up I was getting a build up of CO2 in an area of the tank with little flow. I upped the bubble count by just under a 1/3rd and I am now back to green.


    Regards,
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Hoejay,
    The way I've been taught to think about it is that when plants are healthy and grow well algae is suppressed. The algae never really dies but instead goes into submission, waiting for a change in the environment that they can take advantage of, i.e. sick plants and/or impoverished water conditions.

    Improved CO2 and nutrients will keep the plants healthy, but the algae that is already there will always have to be physically removed.

    It sounds to me that you've done your homework and that you're on the right track. Those are the adjustments I would make certainly, but you will have to hack away at the anubias. Some suggest bleaching the infected leaves but that makes them weak as well. You might also try spot treatment using Excel, or treating the whole tank with Excel.

    It's hard to tell what's going with concentrations in a churning tub of water. I'm thinking that areas with low flow would likely have lower CO2 concentrations. I also suspect that RO water is low in CO2 while tap water is high. While filling you could have easily driven low CO2 water up to the drop checker as you were filling with the hose. That's all guesswork though.
    :rolleyes:

    Cheers,
     
  7. Hoejay

    Hoejay Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Fine black rough algae on Anubias

    As promised picture of fine black rough Algae on Anubias


    071117-R80.jpg

    What is it?

    Regards[/img]
     
  8. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    Ha! That's nothing, you should see mine!

    I reckon I've got the best BBA on here! I bet you're all jealous.....
     
  9. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Mines better than yours ;)
     
  10. Arana

    Arana Member

    Messages:
    1,054
    Location:
    London
    Why is that do the water companies inject Co2?
     
  11. Hoejay

    Hoejay Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Is this why after water change I get loads of pearling on all the plants (because of the increased CO2 load) then this dies back to some modest activity the next day?

    Regards,
     
  12. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes, that's exactly the reason. In a low tech environment algae sense this change and take advantage of it immediately while the plants, which have a more complicated physiology are unable to take full advantage. In a high tech environment, where the plants have already adapted to high levels of CO2, adding tap water is not a big deal.

    Arana, I don't think the water companies inject CO2. I'm guessing that as the water flows from it's source through the various processes and natural materials it absorbs CO2.

    Try measuring the pH of water from the tap as you draw it and then let a sample of the tap sit for an hour or two to let it de-gas. Then measure the pH. You'll see a significant difference...

    Cheers
     
  13. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    I was under the impression that is was the increased oxygen content of the new water that caused the pearling. As the cold/cool water warms, O2 is less soluble so it comes out of solution, plus the O2 produced by the plants is suddenly trying to dissolve in a solution closer to saturation which then leads to the bubbles of gaseous O2 being formed rather than going straight into solution as would normally happen. This is why pearling only happens when the plants ahve been photosynthesising for a while, if at all, even thought they are producing O2 constantly during lights on. Or have I got it all wrong?
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,937
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi Ed,
    I'm sure what you are saying also does happen and contributes to all those bubbles. All gases dissolved in the water will come out of solution as it warms, but if you do the test I mentioned by simply taking a glass of cold water from the tap, measuring the pH and then waiting an hour or two to measure again I think you'll see a big difference in the pH. This CO2 in the tap is immediately available when added to the tank. In a high tech tank where the plants are accustomed to large CO2 they start using it immediately and can photosynthesize immediately if the light is on. I suspect, for example that the bubbles that form on the tank walls are CO2, not O2.

    You raise a good point though, so I'm going to try to collect some of those bubbles in a vial and put a match to it. If you don't hear from me later on the bubbles were oxygen :lol:

    Cheers,
     
  15. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    I'd put money (but not a lot, as I'm not a betting man! :D ) that the bubbles aren't CO2 as it is more soluble in water than O2.

    CO2 has a solubility of 1.45kg/m3, whereas O2 is around 20cc(cm3) per litre (or 20cm3 per 1000cm3)

    The density of gaseous CO2 is 1.98kg/m3 so 1.45kg = 0.732m3 or 732323cm3

    This would mean CO2 would be 732323cm3 per 1000000cm3 (1m3; 1000 litres), or 732cm3 per 1000cm3 (1 litre)

    Compare the solubility of them in the same volume of water, 1 litre, or 1000cm3, then you'd have around 20cm3 of Oxygen but over 732cm3 of CO2. As it's so much more soluble then, uinless you were already staurated with CO2 (which is unlikely) then it's very unlikely that the tap water is saturating the water with CO2 and causing bubbles of CO2 to form.

    The caveat to all this is that I have had a minor car accident today and a few beers and may have made an obvious error with my calculations, which is why I've listed them all!!! :lol:
     
  16. daniel19831123

    daniel19831123 Member

    Messages:
    736
    Location:
    Blackpool
    I second eds opinion. those bubbles sometimes linger for hours after water changes and CO2 has a solubility too high for that to account to.
     

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