AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT

Andrew Butler

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EDIT: 'AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT'

So; I'm unsure quite the title this should have but I think this could be a good idea for me so interested to hear your views, opinions and suggestions.

Here's the idea (I know they already exist but not really to suit the sizes or appearance I require)

The idea is to integrate all the filtration into an aquarium in short.
I would start with an aquarium 1050mm long and then have it partitioned at 150mm so I would essentially be left with a visible aquarium 900 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH)
Some rough sketches to give you an idea of what I mean (hopefully)
-first sketch is the basis of what I would see.
-second sketch is looking from the left hand end weir comb the the right, return to the left.
-third sketch is the very basis of what it would look like inside the sump; exactly how many baffles and layout is something I am deliberating over but this just shows two baffles.

I'm thinking more than 2 baffles might be a good idea but am interested to hear what people think.

The positives I see of this include:
-will skim water surface using the weir
-return neat and tidy
-no need for external canister
-can hide heater away
-able to dose straight into the sump
-can add ATO sensor and pipe into sump
-simple return pump with flow control
-can leave the back and use whichever backing I like including a simple backlight with no messy pipework or cables in the way
-cleaning is just a case of removing media when water is below the weir/return

The negatives I'm not really seeing so much but I'll start a list
-the internal sump section not working as expected which is quite a big one
-arranging baffles to minimise noise
-selecting media to minimise noise
-selecting and sourcing the right sized foams to suit


Picture1.jpg
Picture2.jpg
Picture3.jpg
 
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dean

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Most people who keep large fish have filters like this

They work well with them
No reason it shouldn’t work in an aquascape

If you want to make it even easier to maintain then why not put an overflow in it and have drip system on the tank ?

I would use filter foam so it’s easy to take out and clean if needed
The course grade


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dean

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I would also have another inlet other than just the weir
What happens if it blocks ?

The height of the baffles coming up from the base determine the minimum water level that the tank can still work at providing you dont just rely on the weir
If they only go half way up then you can do a 50% WC and won’t have to turn off pump and heater

What about having 2 smaller pumps instead of one ?
This is a safer way to run it plus you can have 2 separate returns to improve flow


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Andrew Butler

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Has anyone suggestions about baffle heights, location, spacing etc? - I'm quite certain the first one needs to be an under.
Although I understand I can only get the volume of water through the weir and filtration as it will allow but can I regulate speed purely with the return pump, if not is there a way.
I'm not getting my head around these parts and although I think I might know the answer to certain parts am interested to have some feedback.
 

zozo

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Actualy all answers you need are already in his thread.. I got my initial idea of making it from the very first video posted in the opening post by The King Off DIY where he gives good explainations.. Also take a good look at that one. I used the excact same principle with a few little imho improvements such as the sock and the trickle pipe.

The trickle pipe i made to create a kind of a trickle system that does disperse the water over all bio medium so it can trickle down and use its complete volume to the max. Even if no plants are added a trickle tower principle has beter oxygenated filtering capaicity. You can put in what ever media you like best.

And yes to go easy on your self than simply over calculate you overflow with a wet finger and regulate the rest with the pump. As for example i didn't realy calculate, but made the overflow compartiment (first baffle - Your Under) 10x12cm to fit the sock and still have a 2cm overflow gap behind the sock in case it ever cloggs.. The hole feeding it covered with the wier 7 x 3 cm (starting 5cm from the surface).

Thus the overflow compartiment equals square pipe 10x12 cm and its fed by a 800 l/h pump and still could take a lot stronger pump.

When pump is running the water doesn't rise higher than 2cm over the wier, makes it 3 cm from the top rim. There are calculation formulas to give it all a number, but that is rather very (over) complicating theorie. Trail and error is the best way to go with it. And if you decide you made the overflow hole to big, than take a piece of plastic and create a 10mm dam with it from the inside narrowing the hole again. Or other way around, make it bigger with a dremel tool.

Baffle heights are simple, the first bafle need to go from the top and indeed has a gap under. This under gap should have same size as the overflow hole square dimension or bigger. Than the second baffle should be placed far enough from the first to make room for whatever equipment you want to put in. And it need to be closed at the bottom but under the top, preferably the same lenght under the top as the hole you make as overflow. If you want more baffles than you always need to go with Overflow/underflow/overflow/underflow etc. ect. to make it work.

Naamloos.jpg


Thus for placing the baffles you always need to respect the overflow level.. See thin red line.. Making one over baffle higher, than this baffle obviously will reflect the overflow level in the tank.

Naamloos.jpg
 
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Andrew Butler

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can I regulate speed purely with the return pump, if not is there a way
I've had a look through @zozo and not finding the answer about this; I've tried watching them a couple of times, including the first main tank build one.

The trickle pipe i made to create a kind of a trickle system that does disperse the water over all bio medium so it can trickle down and use its complete volume to the max. Even if no plants are added a trickle tower principle has beter oxygenated filtering capaicity. You can put in what ever media you like best.
With respect; for me to get my simple understanding I'd like to push that to one side for now and keep things very basic for me to understand water levels. o_O

So plans as it stands are to have an aquarium built out of 10mm glass 1050 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH) then as part of the build have the partition and baffles fitted which would reduce the display to 880mm internally - same as 900mm including 10mm glass either end. This then leaves me with a partition 140mm wide - I've just assumed 10mm glass is used with all calculations for ease here.

As for the partitioned off area which I will now call my sump:
To surmise internal dimensions will be 880 x 140 x 440mm (LxWxH):
First section - 150mm long this will have a weir comb (of some description) and was thinking of putting foam in here starting with course and getting finer as you go down.
First Baffle - gap underneath
This is about as far as I have definitively got with any complete confidence. ;)

I see there's two potential problems that would cause concern over water levels and my thoughts:
-pump to fail, if this were to happen then the water would carry on flowing over the weir until it levelled out throughout the sump and aquarium (providing the weir allowed that and/or the pump didn't have a back siphon)
-weir/filter to become clogged up, pump would keep on pumping and all water would go from the water that could make its way to the return pump chamber. As already mentioned I'm considering the option of a small low profile intake strainer but unsure how this would affect things.

I've had a little edit of your drawing @zozo and see what you think to the change in height of the baffles, this way the in sump water level will be lowered so it would be down through the foam (note the first baffle very slightly lowered), up and over the second baffle where the water level drops. quite how I'd arrange baffles after that, I'm unsure but would not leave things as they look.

I guess a lot depends on replies back from this now before I respond anymore to your answers. ;)

Naamloos - edit.jpg
 

zozo

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The way you'v drawn it could work quite well.

Tho!?

Naamloos - edit.jpg


The difference between "Overflow Level" and "Display Tank Water Level" will solely depend on the pumps capacity.. It might be higher it might be lower, but always a tad higher than Overflow level.

:)

And its an in tank sump.. Nothing much can happen.. as you say

water levels

the intire setup/volume can never contain more water than it does.. :) So one can never flood the other..

The only consern is keep the sump part filled up.. If you don't eventualy it will run partialy dry..
 
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Andrew Butler

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The way you'v drawn it could work quite well
would kick all of the CO2 out with that drop thought wouldn't it?
The difference between "Overflow Level" and "Display Tank Water Level" will solely depend on the pumps capacity.
So the first baffle needs to be just slightly higher than the bottom of the weir comb/overflow level?
So now with this drop in level is it possible to regulate flow using the return pump alone?
 

zozo

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No, the magic word is "level" as water does naturaly.. Thus keep it same level.. How much the water will flow "over" this level depends on the pumps capacity versus the overflow (drain) capacity.

But as long the overflow capacity superseeds the pumps capacity you are always good to go.. :)

CO² and sumps? Sorry i can not comment with personal experience.. I would say go the @Edvet route a tad less than normal 24/7.. :)
 

Andrew Butler

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*EDIT*
Hi @zozo
Although I thought I understood things in the first place seeing suggestion of adjustable flow and designs with lower baffles to the return chamber made me think this was possible and I was missing something.
As I understand it the easy way is to just allow the water to all be at one level throughout the system which does then allow adjustable flow using the pump.
Systems with lower baffles in the return chamber rely on the pump being balanced and pumping exactly the same amount out as enters.

I think the better descriptor for this is integrated filter and leave the word sump well out of things.
 
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dean

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I actually think the first baffle should be an over
Reasons
1. It allows the first chamber to be a settlement chamber especially if you use koi brush in it
2. The top of the second chamber catches anything that goes past the brush in chamber 1, being at the top it’s easy to access and therefore clean, use something as a mechanical filter in the top of it, filter floss for example, just chuck it away

So you’ve now filtered out the solids so the rest of the filter receives clean ( no solids) water for the bacteria to do there thing with


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zozo

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seeing suggestion of adjustable flow and designs with lower baffles to the return chamber

I have no idea how baffles adjust flow and what to adchieve with that. It's the pump that makes the flow not the baffle. And as long as the overflow can handle the pumps return than there will always be an equal amount of water flowing from filter to tank and back. No baffle can change that. The placement of the baffle functioning as a dam/overflow might chance the level the water rises to but not the flow.

But it indeed seems to be a rather difficult topic to discuss with words and build an imaginary air castle from theory and opinion and see it work before it actualy is build. That's likely the reason why there are so many totaly overcomplicated sump filters with questionable baffles and needles compartiments build and on display. Building sumps or integrated filters that function folowing same priciple stays a trail and error DIY experience.

Personaly i like to keep it simple and straight foreward and sufficient and like to advice accordingly.. Anybody is free to make it more than sufficient, the best of the best with bells and wissles and what not more. I have no opinion on it, the build might be a wonderfull edducative challange you gain from and if it does what it needs to do in the end and thats filter the aqaurium water. Than it does what it needs to do, how and with what is of minor importancy. :)

Learning curve is all about acting, start building and experience succeses and failures.. Discussing without ever acting only overcomplicates the matter and prevents you from ever starting the build.

I'm not trying to be rude here. Just honnest. And that's also what i say to friends that want to DIY.. I always say if you want to learn and to know than stop babbling, stop questioning about it and start building. :thumbup: Don't drive yourself mad with to many questions.
 

Andrew Butler

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I'm not trying to be rude here. Just honnest. And that's also what i say to friends that want to DIY.. I always say if you want to learn and to know than stop babbling, stop questioning about it and start building. :thumbup: Don't drive yourself mad with to many questions.
I didn't take it as rude, I was just trying to get the science clear in my head which it already was about water level and just reading about adjustable flow and seeing the way others have them configured with a drop in level left me wondering how.
They are 2 separate approaches and I intend to take a simple one with the water level in the filter to stay the same as in the display.
I've yet to put pen to paper about baffle layout although I know under/over is the key to the success with what I plan, now I just need to find the right products to take me forward with regards to this build.
Thanks for your help @zozo
 

Andrew Butler

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So after a bit of looking around, reading back over stuff I've decided to not go for the method @zozo uses as it's simply not something I want to add as nice as it is. :sorry:

I've decided to go for an aquarium 1050 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH) of this 150mm will be given over to the filtration section at one end so in essence I am having an aquarium that resembles one 900mm long but just with a blacked out section at one end which will contain all the filtration, media, heating etc which for me is ideal.

Down to design with the 150 x 500 x 450mm filtration section; straight away it's reduced to 480 x 140 x 440mm (LxWxH) when you have taken the thickness of glass into mind.
I'm now concentrating on the 480 x 440mm (LxH) with regards to positioning the baffles (the width will always be 140mm)

The first section will be fed through a weir comb from the display and then filter down through some foam in increasing densities (Foam supported by some kind of egg crate or drilled acrylic) then under a baffle, back over one which will be at the same height as the bottom of the weir comb? (correct Marcel?) then mainly this chamber will be used for some kind of bio media along with some filter floss at the top - I have the option to add Purigen or activated Carbon too. after this back under then over another piece of glass ( same height again @zozo ) then down into the final chamber which will mainly contain heating and return pump pushing water back out into the aquarium probably using a random flow generator.

What are peoples thoughts on the design? - any ideas or thoughts?
I'm a little unsure on how the 40mm clearance will work but there's enough pipe cleaners around these day - I should find something?!
A little unsure about over baffle heights which hopefully Marcel will put me straight with, also whether there really is need to drop the top of the under baffles that little bit and why.

As I now understand it the only thing restricting flow is things that stand in the way between weir and return pump.


20190824_143520.jpg
 

zozo

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JonRivers

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Charterhouse is a UK site zozo, couple of downsides is the limited stock and the smoked glass back which maybe a turn off for some.
 

zozo

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I did order from
https://www.aquadepot-europe.com/

But still, for a set of filter socks and a plastic filter guard set, shipping exceeded the total expense by factor 3.. :)

I ordered anyway because the exclusive design fitted mine perfectly.. But relatively i payed a lot for what i got. More shipping than the product is worth.

USA product via UK vendor doesn't mean the price is relatively ok. Especialy if its not in sttock. I once wanted to order a Micro aqaurium, especialy designed for microscopic research. It's a USA product and the only EU retailer is situated in UK. I asked them for this, and the reply was "Not in stock but we can order" + Shipping fee + Tax Fee + Shipping to my country from the UK. End price + 4 times the USA price.
 
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