Baby CRS and CO2

Discussion in 'Inverts' started by mafoo, 12 Mar 2013.

  1. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    I've been having terrible luck with the survival rate of the CRS fry in my shrimp tank.

    Im wondering if it has to do with the CO2 injection, as all my other parameters that i can test for a pretty much perfect (55L aquarium, tetratec 400 with intake sponge, tds 150, nitrate 5-10, nitrite 0,amonia 0)

    I have diy yeast reactor that runs 24/7.

    I've seen babies on about 4 occasions now but they always disappear after a few days.

    The adults are fine, as are the snowballs.

    Has anyone else had luck breeding CRS in a planted tank.
     
  2. basil

    basil Member

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    Hi - what's your temp and ph please?
     
  3. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    the temp is a solid 22˚C and the ph is 7
     
  4. basil

    basil Member

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    Water param's appear to be okish, but maybe nudge the pH down to 6.5-6.8 ish. Almond Leaves and Almond Bark both very good for this. And make sure you have some shrimplet food. When born, they hang out in the same place for quite a while and if there is insufficient biofilm / brown algae they could simply be starving.

    Other things I've found to help shrimplet survival rates are:-
    • Add an airstone to improve o2. Remember their natural environment is mountain streams which have higher dissolved oxygen levels than most aquariums. This will also help breeding.
    • Get some round pelia in!
    • Cut back water changes for a few weeks when new shrimps about. Switch to 10% top ups, using aged water.
    • Stability is king. Wether its temp, pH, o2, co2, feeding, pruning, singing, lighting, filtration etc etc etc, try to maintain the same environment when babies about. CRS are sensitive, but you can x1000 for the tiny shrimplets.
    Oh, and as you've already pointed out it could well be Co2 related........
     
    viktorlantos and George Farmer like this.
  5. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    I've removed the CO2 and I'll see how that goes - Best to change only a few parameter at a time me thinks. Ive been changing the water with RO as the tap water here is liquid limestone (300+ tds - ph close to 8, 40+ ppm nitrate).

    I had some mini pellia in the tank, but it was on some landscape rock that i removed a while back because it was hardening the water quite a lot. I've got a bit of it growing on some lava rock in my main tank that ill transfer once its established a bit more.

    The tank shouldn't suffer a lack of bio film. Lots of willow moss. There's also a chunk of driftwood covered in fissidens and a few lava rocks also covered in fissidens - and i leave the back panel of the tank un scraped.

    Thanks for the advice.

    heres a terrible pic of the tank as it is at the moment.

    8584130312160636059crstank.jpg
     
  6. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

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    CO2 will dramatically reduce brood production. I found ferts to cause no issues with brood production.

    Activity levels and brood increases a good deal without CO2.
    Excel also has a similar effect, but not as much.
     
  7. John S

    John S Member

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    Tom are you talking about shrimp only or does this apply to fish as well?
     
  8. basil

    basil Member

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    I agree 100% with plant brain!! My other hobby is fly fishing and although a slightly different species I can tell you that shrimp along with most invert species definitely look for streamy, shallow water.....no doubt because the O2 levels are higher!? And funnily enough that's where the fish are often found........,

    5etudytu.jpg

    Proof, a shrimp caught grayling from streamy, highly oxygenated water..........shrimp, YUM!!

    hasupype.jpg
     
  9. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    you mean these things?
    freshwater-shrimp-slide.jpg
    I put them in my pond a while ago, they breed like nobodies business.

    Anyway - we digress. :p

    I've ordered up some almond leaves and I've removed the CO2 (goodbye dreams of HC carpet :'( )

    Im probably going to have to chuck a few more java ferns in there to compensate for the slower uptake of Nitrates with the slower plant growth.
     
  10. basil

    basil Member

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    Yes, java fern seem v good at that. I've also had good results with Rotala sp. Quick and easy to grow, even for a complete plant numpty baffoon like myself. Although I do really like my mossses :)
     
  11. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

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    Shrimp, fish do not seem to care much, at least warm water species. Trout are about as touchy to water quality and temp as they come.

    I've breed Royal Farowellas and a dozen others at 50-70 ppm CO2 at 7-9 ppm O2 for a few years.
    CRS, high grades will bred at warmer temps and with CO2, but the brood will be low, like maybe from 12, you end up with 50 after 1 year.
    Without CO2 and lower temp, say 21 C, then you end up with hundreds. Maybe more.
     
  12. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

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    Try mosses, they like cool temps, which slows plant growth, meaning less CO2 demand.
    Shrimp love moss also.
     
  13. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    humm, I've had a bit of a shrimp die off since i stopped the CO2 , 2 CRS and 3 snowballs dead. :sick: Currently waiting for the salty shrimp stuff to arrive before I change the water. The only difference was an addition of a quarter of an almond leaf and a piece of driftwood. o_O Im hoping the deaths were due to sudden changes in conditions due to the RO water not buffering pH changes - if its not there's something horribly wrong happening in my tank. I hadn't had any losses since i introduced this brood in november. :grumpy:
     
  14. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    I know I'm biased because I only "grow" jungles, but you need a lot more plant biomass. Basically the more plants you have the easier it is to maintain high quality water. Plants have other advantages as well, this is especially true for shrimps and very small fry, where shrimplet/fry survival is dependent to some degree upon browsing surfaces.

    If you have a lot of moss, it provides an immense area area for biofilm to grow on, add in some dead leaves and some plants with great roots like Pistia, and you have start. I also like Ceratopteris in all my tanks, a great water conditioner and with good roots. A large exposed sponge filter also helps (again another browsing surface), rocks (browsing surfaces again), wood etc.

    If you want a more "aquascaped look" have a look at LondonDragon's great shrimp tank thread: <[NANO] Double Opti White - Cherry/Sakura/White Pearl Breeding Colony | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

    cheers Darrel
     
  15. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    Lost another snowball shrimp.

    Im not sure whats going wrong. I got the water tested today and it was pH 7, GH 7, KH 7.5 (damn you landscape rock - now removed), Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, nitrate < 20.

    Im wondering if these almond leaves are to blame. :-/ They were sold as pesticide free - shrimp safe. Or maybe the bogwood - but that spent 3 days in a bucket with boiling water and then another 4 in my main tank.

    :banghead:
     
  16. Iain Sutherland

    Iain Sutherland Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    have you switched to reminialised RO now? otherwise this is the most likely cause, they will survive a few weeks in unsuitable water conditions but then die off.
     
  17. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    Do you mean the mineralised water is the cause or the lack of it?

    The test readings are before adding any minerals to the tank.

    My Salty shrimp Bee shrimp GH+ arrived to day and I've added it to the barrel of RO water i just got. The barrel is in the airing cupboard coming up to a safe temperature.
     
  18. Lindy

    Lindy Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    I have around 4 indian almond leaves, 2 banana leaves and a bunch of beech leaves in my tank and 4 berried shrimp as I was worried there wouldn't be enough biofilm for the shrimplets. You don't seem to have much moss/plants in your tank so I would suggest more leaves and moss to provide more surfaces for biofilm. Would it be worth checking the accuracy of your tds meter? I found mine out by 20ppm. I would try to lower your ph closer to 6 and gh to 6. My tap water is terrible for shrimp so I have to doctor the water too.
    Good luck:)
     
  19. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    Theres loads of moss and a whole piece of bogwood covered in fissidens. Its hard to see in pictures, but the back of the tank has a ton of willow moss in there.
    61202130327160057011image.jpg
    The problem is that adults are the ones snuffing it atm since i stopped the CO2 and added an almond leaf. :arghh:
     
  20. Lindy

    Lindy Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh crap. Mine were dying, one every couple of weeks. Ended up changing the substrate from akadama to ADA amazonia to get a stable, low ph. Also started using mosura mineral plus to alter my tds but don't know if any of this had a bearing on the improvements. Finding the tds 20ppm out may have been the main fix, my tds would have been down at 100-110 instead of the 130 I have now. I've also stopped feeding pellet food and have been giving them mulberry leaves(ebay-shrimpscape) which they go mental for. Because my ph very low now I'm dosing with genchem Biozyme. I run pressurised co2, just cutting it back slowly now until eggs hatch and will then raise my spraybar for maximum agitation/ oxygenation for a few weeks. Shrimp eh, who'd of thought they could be so much hastle. Its really annoying when people say oh i don't do anything special/check tds and their crs are breeding like rats.
     
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