Baby CRS and CO2

Discussion in 'Inverts' started by mafoo, 12 Mar 2013.

  1. Iain Sutherland

    Iain Sutherland Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    sorry mafoo, you said you were slowly changing from tap of 300TDS to RO remineralised, was wondering if you are still doing this or if the tank is now stable?
     
  2. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    I switched to un Mineralised RO from Tap about 5 months ago.

    Tomorrow ill start the transition to RO mineralised by the salty shrimp.

    The Tds in my tank did keep creeping up after water changes - which i think can mostly be attributed to the landscape rock that was in there.
     
  3. nimaas

    nimaas Newly Registered

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    What is that picture of? I recently bought some plants and a few hitchhikers came along with them, one of them is the critter above plus 2 snails. Is it a shrimp, if so what kind? I've never had shrimp in my tank....
     
  4. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    That is a UK "Freshwater Shrimp", Gammarus sp. Despite their name, they are "Isopod Crustaceans", rather than being true shrimps (which are "Decapod Crustaceans"). Gammarus are quite tricky to keep in a heated tank because they have a very high oxygen requirement. Hyalella azteca is very similar, but much easier to keep. This is Hyalella
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBFq2DL_dXj_As9c1ZLDj4Whwywt37RMIX010xl_k5TkqhjbDOeQ.jpg

    Asellus (Water Hog) is another more likely option, it is another Isopod, & similar in appearance, but instead of being flat from side to side, it is flat from top to bottom. These have much lower oxygen requirements and I've kept Asellus in my tanks since before real shrimps were available.

    Asellus aquaticus
    asellus-aquaticus.jpg

    cheers Darrel
     
  5. nimaas

    nimaas Newly Registered

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    Thanks for the reply! This is what I have in my tank it's hard to see- bottom left corner. I just want to make sure it won't affect potential fish. Currently I am establishing the tank, all that's in there is plants and the hitchhikers. I plan to add small fish and some shrimp in time.
    [​IMG]
    VU09b8c.jpg
     

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  6. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    It's difficult to see for sure from the photo, but it is definitely an Arthropod. My suspicion is that it is an Asellus.

    cheers Darrel
     
  7. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    2 more snowballs and 1 more CRS dead.

    Water parameters are fine, I have no idea whats going on here :eek:
     
  8. plantbrain

    plantbrain Expert

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    Are you still using CO2?

    Cut that out if so.

    Excel/Easy Carbo also.

    The lower temps will be better, 20C etc, this dramatically reduces plant growth, so CO2 demand is less, much less for many species.

    Higher O2 for shrimps also.
    Fewer water changes also.

    These all add up to => more brood production.

    Old seasoned ADA AS is good, not new stuff.
     
  9. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    Stopped the CO2 over a week ago. Temp is at 22

    Pulled another dead snowball out today :bawling:. Ive stuck an air brick in today - see if that changes anything.
     
  10. basil

    basil Member

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    Really hard to know the exact route cause. It may well now be bacterial, brought on by something else. There really are lots of variables, but you will get there be process of elimination. I lost a colony of about 60 crs, I was down to my last 2 before I got it sussed. Lucky for me the last 2 were male and female and from those I bred approx 300!

    Did you try almond / catappa or banana leaf yet?
     
  11. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    The deaths seemed to start in earnest after i put the almond leaf in. :crazy: But that was arround the same time that i stopped the CO2

    I fed them some boiled spring greens today that they are going nuts over. Lots of calcium in it i believe.

    As a last ditch attempt, I've ordered some zeolite and activated carbon that im going to chuck in the canister - if that doesn't stop the deaths then im going to assume that its bacterial and go cry in a corner. :bawling:
     
  12. Shrimp Toast

    Shrimp Toast Newly Registered

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    Hi mafoo,

    Are the shrimps dying after they are moulting? I use the Salty shrimp salts also and I have found that I have had to add extra (than recommended dosage) to get my TDS to where I want it. I keep all my bees at 180ppm.
    If its nothing to do with moulting then I would definitely say bacterial, its strange but in spring bacterial problems just seem to explode in shrimp tanks! For this I would recommend large regular water changes, 50% daily for at least a week. Keep the temp as low as possible and only feed a tiny bit. I know this seems extreme but I have heard from people who have battled with this problem for weeks and ended up losing their whole collection to it.

    Let us know how its going and hope you dont lose any more!
     
  13. mafoo

    mafoo Member

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    I've lost 2 more snowballs since wednesday :bawling:

    Im switching over from un mineralised to mineralised RO atm - so i dont think 50% water changes daily would be good until the minerals get up a bit more in the tank, should be done with that in the next 2 weeks hopefully.

    The TDS is arround 160, but thats most probably due to the landscape rock interacting with the CO2 used to have in there.

    Im not sure how to diagnose a moulting problem. I've seen one once before this happened where the bottom half of the shell came off but the bottom one didn't. The recently deceased all seem to have their shells intact from what i can see. Its possible they just failed to moult. I've noticed a lot of the shrimps have moulted recently - which might have been encouraged by the recent addition of the salty shrimp.

    Im not sure what signs to look out for if its a bacterial infection. They seem pretty ok to me colour wise.

    :banghead:
     
  14. Shrimp Toast

    Shrimp Toast Newly Registered

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    Oh no, sorry to hear that! Ah i see, what TDS are you aiming to get the tank to when completely switched over? Hmm dosent sound much like a moulting problem then, usually would expect to see empty shells or some kind of splitting down the backs of the dead shrimps. Also 160 should be enough to let them moult okay, and you have given them greens to boost Calcium which will help. Usually its really hard to diagnose bacterial problems as shrimps tend to look fine right up until they keel over, which is a bit of a nightmare. Unfortunatly the only thing you can do is fish out the dead ones asap and try to do as much water changing as you dare to drop the bacteria population down for the others. Fingers crossed it will die down and the rest will be okay!
     
  15. Ady34

    Ady34 Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Mafoo,
    Sorry to hear of your losses. It must be very frustrating when you appear to be doing everything right, yet still have issues. I have no scientific knowledge to back up this suggestion, and no real shrimp knowledge, but I have been keeping CRS in my planted nano for nearly a year now without any deaths (except jumpers) and I attribute this to good filtration through both the filters action and the plants alongside the addition of a beneficial bacterial supplement. Your tank has a relatively low plant biomass which means you will be relying heavily upon your filter and water changes/maintenance. I don't think you have given details of water change frequency and filter maintenance regimes, but with shrimp it is essential to keep wastes low so cleaning mechanical filtration at every water change is important. I too use salty shrimp remineraliser and find it to be excellent.
    I also use a concentrated bacteria supplement after every water change. I believe this could be something worth trying to supplement beneficial bacteria in your filter to ensure the shrimp aren't succumbing to anything as simple as bacterial infection. I use a product called Mosura BT-9, it was suggested to me by our sponsor FWS, who had nothing to gain financially from it as they didn't stock it.....so I purchased it from Sharnbrook Shrimp, our new shrimp sponsor, when i first set up. For the price of it and how much you use it is inexpensive, if others think it may be a bacterial issue, I'd say its definitely worth a try :) I'm sure one of the shrimp sponsors will have it in stock and be able to advise you about it if you were to ask them directly.
    Cheerio,
    Ady.
     
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  16. brancaman

    brancaman Member

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    Hello, i had the same problem as mafoo considering i too have a "planted aquarium" meaning lots of co2 and ferts EI and 50% wc every week and my crs babies didn´t last long... So i decided to make one crs only tank without co2 or ferts and i now see many hair algaes and bba! Is it possible to add easy carbo and some kind of micros/macros crs shrimp safe? Every time i ask from shrimp keepers i get one negative reply - choose crs or planted aquarium!

    By the way my tank is 52x26x28 - 35 Lts
    Eheim 2213 ,Jaeger 50W, 2X15W T8 6500K
    3 L Ada Aquasoil New Amazonia , sílica sand ,alder cones, oak and almond leaves .
    Flora:
    Monosolenium tenerum, Microsorum pteropus, Fissidens fontanus, Hydrocotyle tripartita, Echinodorus tenellus, Marsilea hirsuta, Riccardia chamedryfolia, Limnobium Laevigatum

    Fauna :
    6 Crystal Red Shrimps
    Water changes every week of 5L
    ph 6º. gh 2º and kh 2º

    Best regards
     
  17. Ady34

    Ady34 Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi brancaman, welcome to the forum.
    In answer to the above question i would say definitely yes, check out my CRShrimp nano journal linked in my signature below. I use both easy carbo and ei ferts and have built up quite a colony. I have grade A shrimp, maybe with higher quality shrimp they may be more sensitive to liquid carbon, but my lower grade A's have flourished.

    One thing im sure has helped my tank is the use of less demanding plants (of which from your list i have several species the same) in conjunction with low lighting levels. I think 30w of light over 35l is high, i only run 11w over 55l. This way i can dose ferts leanly which helps keep my TDS from raising too much. I have recently upped my easy carbo dosing to 1.5ml daily, which although has had no noticable effects on the shrimps behaviour, may explain a slow in reproduction....but thats just speculation. I may reduce this back down to the 1ml/day dose i have always used (pretty much as per bottle dosing recommendation).
    Hope this helps.
    Cheerio,
    Ady.
     
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  18. Pedro Rosa

    Pedro Rosa Member

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  19. Ady34

    Ady34 Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, also what temperature do you have your heater set at or is it a fail safe incase of seasonal drops in temperature or overnight drops? 21-22degrees Celsius is good for CRS. A 50w heater may also produce rapid rises in temperature in a small volume of water which temperate water shrimp dont like. I was told by our sponsor freshwater shrimp that CRS will tolerate small reductions in temperature, but don't like sharp rises....just a thought.
    Cheerio,
    Ady.
     
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  20. brancaman

    brancaman Member

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    Thanks for your reply, i started looking for your journal and i wish mine would become just like yours:clap:.
    So perhaps i should reduce lighting and fertilize with both macros, micros and liquid co2?
    What kind of dosing should apply?
    My thermometer reads 24ªC, in the beginning was 22º but a friend of mine told me to get 24º, now i´m confused.o_O

    Anyway i will start a new topic and want to apologize mafoo for being an intruder in your topic, hope all the killings end soon:(
     
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