Bike Respray Project No2 - Raleigh to Baum replica

[GreenNeedle]

Hi guys. You may remember the project I did a couple of years ago where I turned this Tifosi:

Into this Super SiX:

Well some urchin nicked that from Tesco a couple of months ago and with no money to buy anything as good as the Tifosi, I ended up getting a second hand Raleigh Airlite 300.

I quite like this bike but have the itchy finger urge to customise again.

So I am going to attempt to turn this:

Into something like this:

I'm going to make this much more of a custom job though. On the last 'customisation' it was more a case of buying the stickers, spraying the frame black, putting on stickers and lacquering. A direct replica if you like.

This time I am going to personalise it a bit. Use the colour scheme of the Baum but make my own 'stencils' from wide masking tape so it will look the same but not have 'Baum' on it.

You may notice that I seem to love the black/white/green combo. Maybe I do. lol. My website is the same colours and I'm even doing my bathroom in those colours too (more white with black/green)

So with that in in I am going to use my website name GreenNeedle as the bike 'graphics'.

GREEN will replace the BAUM logos and Needle will replace the Ristretto logos. I'm also going to adapt the website's main logo (same as my Avatar) as the head tube badge.

I'm going to replicate all the actual detail on this bike including inside the forks and the top of the seat stem etc so it could all go horribly wrong

On a budget as always and because I like the way the straight blade forks look on the Baum I am doing as I did previously and looking for some cheap Carbon ones on ebay. Will also replace the bars, stem, Seatpost and saddle plus add carbon spacers and seat tube clamp.

I'm even considering getting some new shifters eventually. Was looking at the coloured microshift ones but I think I will probably look for a pair of 105 doubles.

So not going to happen at this very moment. will wait for the forks to come up then start planning things.

If you want to see how the detailing on this bike is the following flicker stream has a few pics (4th pic to 9th pic)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/baumcycles/page3/

Wish me luck

Andy

 

[GreenNeedle]

Should add that unlike the Baum in the picture mine will have white bar tape and white saddle plus white brake blocks (the calipers are black) with matching green/white cartridges and to finish will have white Schwalbe Ultremo ZX (Its so hard to ride on these Kendas when you're used to top notch tyres. lol)

Any help on a font that is very close to the BAUM one will be muchly appreciated


Andy

 

[Alastair]

Going to look awesome mate, I'll be watching this all the way :0)

 

[GreenNeedle]

Trialled a few fonts so far. This one looks the closest at the moment:

 

[a1Matt]

Nice project

(I'd be more inclined to buy the expensive bike and make it look like the cheap one.
Less chance of it getting nicked that way )

 

[Garuf]

All black, no branding, that's where it's at.

I'm considering buying a set of tubing and lugwork and building it myself, frame up. I've been looking for something nice and more modern but everything has those horrible sloped top tubes.

 

[Garuf]

Well lets put it this way, I can buy the best tubes Reynolds make for 1 40th of the cost of a custom build in the same material, I can also build the bike to my exact geometry and requirements so zero compromise and it will easily out preform an off the peg of a similar cost and most likely one of a much higher cost. The brazing won't be as good but for the money and the experience I don't really care, the next one will be a better build. For me a custom bike is the pinnacle of what I could want to achieve.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Lol @ Gareth

I would've agreed with you r.e. the sloping top tube a couple of months ago (see the first pic in first post and you can see it's a straight top tube) however 2 months on this one and I love it mate.

It's a bit like the Kelvin ratings arguments is on here on the bike forums r.e. why. Some will say that compacts (sloping) tubes are just to save weight, some say it makes the handling better (much stiffer frame and less flex.)

Then there will be the non believers that say it is so they don't need to make 6/7 different sizes like they do with the straight bar frames.

In answer to the latter. Can't understand that argument because most of the top manufacturers make the sloping frames in 6/7 sizes.

However since riding this bike I can throw it round corners and find I am naturally leaning much more than before round them. Not trying to lean more, just am and therefore carrying speed better and can push off harder and earlier whilst getting back to the upright position.

Some will say different bike making the difference but the Tifosi was a much better bike than this one and this is 2kg heavier at the moment with garbage tyres on plus it is not carbon parts yet. Will be more of a comparison once I've got it finished and have the carbon forks/stem/bars/saddle and a decent stem on it.

One other thing is I can get a smaller size frame whilst maintaining the handlebar height. Seatposts these days come in 350mm/400mm lengths where the old traditional ones were closer to 270mm.

Go in a shop and try one Gareth. Then blitz a few tightish corners @ 20-30mph and come back with your findings You may be as surprised as I was.

Broke my record down Lindum Hill last week (Its only about 200 yards) @ 44mph. lol. Its a 30mph limit down there

As for plain bikes This new project is pretty subtle for my tastes Will look better when all the logos off the bars and wheels etc are showing. lol. I'm custom finishing the carbon bars and stem and seatpost too and the Schwalbe tyres are logo city. lol

Is this what you mean to do Gareth?

Taken from the thread below:
http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomme ... pagenum=16

And why Reynolds? Why not Columbus tubing?

Andy




Andy

 

[Garuf]

I was thinking more like this BMC:

Why Reynolds? It'd supposed to be more forgiving on a beginner project than columbus, I've ridden an EMC with columbus and I didn't think it as nice as reynolds 653, seemed to tremble at higher speeds and feel unstable.

I don't know on the sloping top tube, I just don't like the looks of it, I regularly top my pug out at 30mph around where I live and rarely need to touch the breaks to go through fast bends, I'd like a faster gear infact, I find I'm going as fast as the bike can do but I feel like I can go much faster I've paced behind my dad at 50mph on a 22% incline just to see what I could do and I wish I could go that fast all the time. Interestingly I know a lot of italian frame builders are coming back to horizontal top tubes the argument being the small amounts of flex it allows reduce fatigue on the bottom bracket shell, I know lots of japanese type builds don't use sloped tubes either but I think that's soley an aesthetic thing. I know that a lot of frame builders don't rate sloping tubes simply because you can still get stiffness in the frame by tweaking geometry and choosing the right tubes, I think the weight thing is the biggest thing because it'll appeal to the weight weinys market and the general hobbyist too will remark on the weight or lack of it, especially if they have allusions to being the next Lance or simply want to get a bike as light as possible.
That's not really a condition for me though, yes I don't want a bike that weights a metric tonne, I'm just not too bothered about it being the lightest thing possible I just want it to ride well, be steel and look beautiful while parked.

 

[GreenNeedle]

I'm a wannabe weight weenie but with my budget anything near 8kg is good

Another thing I guess you would hate about newer bikes is that on many of the 'sportives' they put triple rings on. That ain't for me.

Also the Compact chainset is on a huge amount of bikes (including my new one) which was really wierd for the first month. I find it quite cool now though. A few gears wasted and one extra change when moving to the big cog but it is good up hills

Never really been into steel. I remember heavy bikes. I suppose thats why the Columbus Tifosi felt so good to me. This Raleigh is aluminium but not feeling the vibration many bike snobs talk about.

That BMC has got a sloping op tube, though granted it is minimal

Andy

 

[Garuf]

Yeah, too much to go wrong, I'm a total troglodite with bike technology, main reason I like friction shift and non-indexing, I can fix it myself with minimal tools.

I hear a lot of talk of alu vibrating, I've ridden a couple of alu frames and I don't find the vibration to be a real problem, the real issue is that those I have ridden is they handle like wet noodles, so much flex.
A few of my frineds have the Caad bikes, one an 008 and that other the 010 and I don't think I mind the sportif type gearings as much as I would, they're certainly a massive boon when climbing hills and around the 70miles mark they seem to make covering the last few miles a bit easier, but they don't offer any higher speeds which would be nice, they also do make for an uglier bottom bracket set up, more to go wrong etc.

haha, you remember heavy bikes, I ride one. I have something of a steel love afair, it's the best material for me, I tried out one of those BMC's not the all black one, I wish, a bmc race machine and I found it felt so light it didn't feel like their was any quality, the expected weight seemed to trick you into thinking it to be much less durable and made you think you couldn't hold the road which rules out carbon, at least for the minute.

It's a good project, did you see the "all carbon isn't equal" article recently with the strength testing of carbon parts? Certainly made me think twice about those carbon ebay deals.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Nope link me to the carbon jobby

Those Baum bikes are handmade old style jobbies. Not Carbon but you do pay for the handmade bit. You choose the colour scheme yourself etc.

The too much to go wrong bit is overplayed IMO. Indexing is really easy to sort out. The problem is that many people think that it ain't working because the chain is rubbing but in truth you are always going to have rub with 8/9/10/11 cogs on the rear. What they don't realise though is the Indexing shifters have a 'trim' feature where you half click pull the front deraillieur and it moves it slightly so you can use the higher half of the rear on the small cogs and vice versa you can release the front mech slightly to let you use the lower half on the big cog

Its something I only learnt a few years ago and these days it's like second nature. The high end Dura Ace etc 'auto trim'

I can set up the indexing within 10 minutes or so and then forget about it for a few months unless it's new cables then they need to be redone as the cable stretches a little.

Be interesting that carbon article. I was having a 'discussion' with a chap who is well into motorbikes about carbon and of course he was one of the 'no you're wrong' types. When I did my Cannondale copy he said looks a bit silly with stickers saying it is carbon yet the bike is matt black.

I explained to him that the original Super Six had a matt finish because Cannondale had not bothered to put the 'aesthetic' cross weaving on the top layer so it was naturally plain. 'Nope the cross weave is how you do carbon so if you don't see that then it isn't carbon' said he to which I went 'If thats what you want to believe. lol.

Its quite obvious really. When you buy Carbon bars even some of the top end ones the weave is in the central visible area where the parts that the bar tape will cover they leave it without this layer.

On the weight front if you think the best you can get for the circa £500 brand new is going to be in the 10-11kg region (unless single speed fixie) then the frame doesn't make a huge difference between those and the £10k bikes. A light frame is gonna be just under 1kg. The £500 bike maybe nearing 2kg. An old steel frame maybe 2-3 kg. however that isn't the difference between the budget bike weighing 11kg and the top notch weighing 5kg. Only half a kilo difference in the frame in many cases. Its the DA vs Sora weights and the carbon vs alloy/aluminium bars/stems etc.

My Tifosi was 10.2kg when I bought it. When it got nicked it was in the 8.6kg region. Just putting Schwalbe Ultremos on instead of some cheapies will take 300g off. lol

Andy

 

[Garuf]

Oh aye, the Baum Corretto had meant to be one of the nicest bikes to ride around at the minute, especially one that's been "fitted" for you.
Talking of things custom and sporteif, I spotted a Japanese tourist riding one of these in my area

There Piuma isn't a bad looking bike either (and can be made with a flat toptube.
I almost blew my loan on a waterford r33, rumoured to be lightest steel frame ever (read as too many beers and a debit card saying I have money), I worked out realistically I could never ever afford one though as the short coming in my accounting became clear. Meant to be some off the easiest steel frames to throw into corners and lighter than comparative carbon frames.
I'm not on my pc at the minute, at the grandparents so will find the carbon article out asap, the jist of it being most ebay carbon is crap, a lot of high end stuff is crap and then there were some surprises with mid range stuff being both lighter and stronger, cinelli didn't come out of it too well nor did easton.
It essentially comes down to pay your money take your choice, there's lots of huge bucks bikes snapped on this blog http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
This isn't the article I'm thinking of but is a nice read http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/08/ ... ted-equal/

I hear you on the too much to go wrong thing being played out, I hear it alot from older guys who don't think my campagnolo drive chain is up to much, but I think it's personal experience, I can take apart everything that makes my gears shift clean it and put it back together with no hassle and I know where every spring and screw sits and where the sweet spots are on the gear shifters, I wouldn't have a clue where to start on ergo-indexed kit if it should ever give up on me and that would mean a repair bill. I'd definitely be into shaving weight off my bike but so much is non standard I'm better getting a better frame and putting the money into the best groupset I can buy and then carbon parts as and when I can afford.

I'm running Continental gatorskins atm on open pro's and the feel changed instantly, weight especially but the handling too, a bit step up from the bontrager racelites which had a horrible habbit of slipping out on corners at speed, not fun on a longwheel based ride.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Try the Ultremos Gareth. I went from cheapo tyres onto michelin pro3s and the difference was immense. then tried the Conti Attack/Force combo and they were a little better than the pro 3s. Only went onto the Schwalbes because they look awesome (don't worry you can get them in black and it was like bike heaven. Racing around corners in the wet and feel like they will hold any angle you corner at. plus there feels like no resistance at all.

Something really not to cheap out is tyres. Yes a proper race pair like Conti attack/force/pro3/ultremo are going to wear out quicker. Have to change them every year or every 3-4000 miles but the saving in petrol far outweighs the expense of £60 on tyres each year. lol

As for the indexed STIs repair? If they go wrong you sell them on ebay as spares and still get good money and then buy some new working ones on ebay. Don't know of many people who actually attempt torepair them.

I'm not really one for buying top groupsets. I stuck with Sora for years. Removing the Tiagra off the Tifosi and putting old Sora on paid for some of the carbon parts I added to that bike

These days the bottom of the range stuff works great so its only weight saving really going up the pecking order.

As for the Carbon I had ITM bars and stem on the Tifosi and they felt awesome. No idea if they were decent quality though. Most of the stuff is made in the Far East. I'm looking at a mix of Deda this time although the Bars I am buying are actually CarboTec who I think make FSA stuff before its rebadged. <-don't quote me on that

I like the look of Cinelli stuff but not the price. This ike was going to be a Cinelli Strato Copy until I saw the Baum

If I do upgrade the sifters it won't be because of wanting to go up any. It will because the new Sora shifters have a more pointed profile on the front of the levers. I liked the flatter profile of the old Sora 7/8 spd) and its annoying they though it was wise to change it. However got my eyes on some scratched up 105 shifters at the mo. If I get them I shall use my touch up skills to make the levers matt black

Timescale for the project is going to start in 5 weeks as that is when the pool season ends and so I will have 4 week for painting and not needing my bike.

Might just be the frame for now. Do the forks with no time restrictions as and when I find a pair of the right shape/rake and at the right price (as close to £0.01 as poss)

All the Carbon replacements will be as and when I can afford it so maybe over the whole of the next 12 months.

Given up on the GreenNeedle avatar I use being the head badge. Just going to go with GN and then add to the top and bottom to complete a circle. Will put that up when I've done it

Someone on another forum asked me how I am going to do the top tube logo where the letters are just gloss on the matt tube.

Pretty easy if you have done guitar necks. You know where the base of the neck and the headstock is gloss (polished and then there is a V line where the back of the neck is matt (unpolished)

Well the whole of the top tube (and the rest of the frame) is wet and dryed down to P800 (Go any further like P1200/1500 and it is so smooth it will shine anyway) to remove the 'orange peel effect. Then on goes the masking tape stencil (cut to the outline of the letters and any ad ins for centre of O or A etc,) make sure it's completely stuck down.

On the guitar I would just lay a line where the V is and use a rag with Car polisher (colour restorer/swirl remover) and on this project with it being such small areas I shall be using either cotton buds or very small pieces of cloth formed into a rubber. Very important not to move the masking tape while polishing.

Once done remove the tape and you have the matt black tube with just the letters polished Not done it before so will see if it works. If not then resand to P800 and thing of something else.

Andy

 

[GreenNeedle]

You'll have to excuse the number of photos there will be in this thread. I love bike porn and carbon is yummy tasty (as my kids would say)

I like my bikes much different to everything else. Everything else is quite plain, and no logos etc. On my bike decals and logos rule. lol. This thread will make Garuf throw up

I've weighed the bike properly now. After removing mounts and lights and computers etc it comes in at 10.6kg. That includes my pedals which are Keo Carbons weighing 240g. Take them off and it makes 10.3kg. Close enough to the advertised weight of 10.2kg.

I've now sourced the carbon bars, stem and some carbon spacers for when I get some new carbon forks. The bars arrived today and are quite understated logos in comparison to many others but none the less pretty blingy in my eyes.

This was how the bars looked before. These were the ones that came with the bike. 42cm, Aluminium, Deep Drops. A little too wide for me and I don't like the deep drops either. These weigh in at 337g:

And the new bars. 39cm, full carbon, shallow drops. These weigh in at 241g.

So that is 96g shaved off the weight already. We're down to 10.4kg now.

Just a few more pics because I'm in love and I know Garuf will just lurve the extra bumps and curves of the bars. Just to note you can see above that the bars aren't straight across like the last carbon bars I had. They angle back at you from the centre a little:

I am such a saddo, drooling away. Oh should add done 10 miles on them and they feel better than the ITM full carbons I had on my old bike

Waiting on the Deda zero 1 stem to arrive now so it puts the bars a little further forward and gets rid of the ugly stem on there at the moment.


Andy

 

[Garuf]

I actually originally rode with "ergo" type bars and they made my wrists feel like they were going to explode. threw on a set of italian deep drops and I was set. On my next build I think I'm going to use nitto noodles, supposed to be a little easier to navigate through traffic with. Failing that I've got some beautiful cinnelli Nos "tour winners" that I can put on.

What are the lights? I'm on the market for a decent set of lights for riding in the countryside where there's no street lights but can't find anything in budget.

I'm staying quiet on the logos, you already read my mind.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Those lights are in your budget Garuf.

The front one is awesome. Replaced a £30 cateye it did. Came from Poundland so cost £3.....

.....£3 you say...yes i bought 2 sets of Nimh rechargeable batteries for it too. lol.

Bracket only fits standard <26.0 diameter, hence why I have cut, drilled and cable tied it. lol

Best light I've ever had though. Very bright and nice wide beam. Can see the road in front nicely.

These pics are from when it was on the old bike

Rear is a standard poundland rear for £1 inc batteries.

Andy

 

[Garuf]

Did it replace it because it was better quality or did it go to fund more carbon?

That's a right bargain, I'd definitely run two sets though, it was so dark I couldn't see more than a bikes length ahead of me the other day, rode too far to get back before the light left me, not tempted to build a diy rig?

 

[GreenNeedle]

Not at all tempted to DIY when these are a quid. Don't need 2. its bright Being LED I've only charged the batteries once this year too

The wall/my son's bike in the pictures above is a full bike length away, maybe a little more

The Cateye didn''t fund Carbon no. Its still in the shed. Down the list of standbys behind the other 2 of these lights I bought. lol.

Just tested it out in the garden (no house lights shining out so a reasonable test) Can see clearly for 8 metres or so, then the beam starts to dissipate from thereon. Would've taken a picture but its hard to get a good pic of what it can do in the dark with my camera. The pic of my kids bike makes it look quite narrow but it lit up that wall when I took it

Andy

 

[OllieNZ]

Hi All
Having worked with carbon in the past I was particularly interested in the busted stuff and I cant believe how thin some of those carbon components are
The problem with cabon(or any composite for that matter) is that it dosent take knocks very well. A stone off the front wheel hitting the lower bar of the frame is not a problem on a metal bike it just leaves a pockmark in the surface, on a carbon bike the same thing could easily cause the structure to delaminate and may not even cause any surface damage. Carbon is a devil for hiding damage and can reqiure some pretty in depth non destructive inspection to ensure structural integrity. The worst bit is the damage can get worse without ever becoming visible . Race bikes in particular are designed using finite element analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_method and may not have much in the way of redundent structure. Put simply when it breaks its gonna be an epic failure.
Personally I'm more of a downhill guy

Still my favorite rig a 2005 Specialized Big Hit FSR (my mate in the pic after falling off )

Regards

Ollie