Breeding Celestial Pearl Danio (Danio margaritatus)

Superman

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Well all the adults were removed from the small tank on Monday and there has been no signs of fry.
Oh well plan B with the other tank. Although, I've just noticed that the internal filter is covered with thick algae, so I might have to remove it and buy and external.
 

beeky

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Just a few thoughts (apologies if you're already doing this, I haven't read through the whole thing)....

If you reduce the water level with the females in it and stop water changes for a few weeks, then replace half the water with rain/RO water at a lower temperature and introduce the males you might see some activity.
 

mlgt

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Any luck with these? Ive got 10 CPD in my CRS tank currently and the temp is at 24 and water changes every 2 weeks via 2 litre bottles with holes drilled in the top to recreate rain.

Ive only had these guys for 2 weeks but showing signs of courtship.
 

magpie

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An ignorant question... but is anybody making any notes of genetic lines to avoid massive inbreeding? I'm envisaging brother/sister matings taking place for generations, which is how the dog/horse/cat/cow/everything pedigree world has managed to ruin their bloodstock...

are there enough separate lines to go around?

m
 

Ed Seeley

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magpie said:
An ignorant question... but is anybody making any notes of genetic lines to avoid massive inbreeding? I'm envisaging brother/sister matings taking place for generations, which is how the dog/horse/cat/cow/everything pedigree world has managed to ruin their bloodstock...

are there enough separate lines to go around?

m
Genetics is a bit more complex than that for organisms such as fish. Bear in mind these fish live in small waterways with high mortality which can lead to a reduced gene-pool even in the wild. Species such as this tend to have a very high resistance to inbreeding depression as can be seen in some strains of killifish that have been maintained in closed gene-pools after collection from the wild for over 40 years. Killifish breeders are very careful not to cross different collections in captivity.

Mammals tend to really suffer from inbreeding depression to a much greater degree so don't make good comparisons to fish generally. Careful selection of offspring and ruthlessly removing any deformaties can go a long way to removing any signs of potential effects of inbreeding in a species that produces a lot of offspring.
 

magpie

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Interesting...like the Icelandic horses? Thank you - makes me feel a great deal better. Presumably all the horror stories about inbred Gouramis are because nobody bothered with the ruthless removal of offspring, which isn't altogether surprising if you're breeding thousands for a ready market

thanks

m
 

mlgt

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Does anyone else bred these in the past? Ive recently been given 10 of these and planning to keep them in my tank, but I would love to have the oppurtunity to breed some fish as I havent had luck with raising any fry before in my 180l tank.

So now I have 10 of these little guys in a 60l tank with 8 CRS and lots of moss.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I haven't kept these, but I've given away a lot of moss to people trying to breed them. The feedback I've had is that they are quite easy in an established tank with lots of moss, not just little patches of it but huge cushions and tangles of moss. I don't think it matters if it is bare bottom or has a substrate, because the moss should cover everything. You could use a layer of glass marbles on the bottom, but if you have enough moss you don't need to. I wouldn't use a spawning mop, purely because the eggs aren't sticky.

I would plant up some wood/mesh/aquarium sponge with lots of moss, put it in the spawning tank (probably go for at least a 30cm cube) and leave it to get on with it until it has grown. A larger tank will allow you to grew up the fry to a reasonable size without having to worry too much about water quality. If you could get some Najas or Ceratophyllum for the tank even better, I'd probably add some Limnobium as well. I'd want at least 4 weeks growth.

I would grow some mosquito larvae for conditioning the adults. I culture my own mosquito larvae in the summer. I use a black 5 Gallon "builders bucket" filled with rainwater with a handful of dry leaves and a handful of glass clippings added. I put it somewhere shady and float a cork in it (the mosquito female needs somewhere to perch why she lays her eggs). If you want to contain the grass clippings, you can tie them up in a stocking. If the water begins to clear and mosquito larvae production drops off, add some more grass clippings. This works really well.

I'd then add your pair/harem of CPD to the tank, condition them with lots of mosquito larvae until they are really fat and well coloured, as soon as you see them showing signs of spawning take the adults out the next morning or the morning after (they will spawn evening or early morning). The other requirement is high quality water, so at least 20% water change every day (ideally with re-mineralized R.O. or rain water) and a matured sponge filter (air powered is fine). You won't see the eggs or fry for a while, but after a couple of weeks you should be able to see them darting around the moss.

I've bred Rams, Killis, Tetras, Pencils etc using this approach and it works pretty well for nearly all "difficult" fish, the moss provides both shelter and food, once the fry are amongst it it doesn't matter how small they are they are surrounded by potential food sources in the biofilm.

cheers Darrel
 

mlgt

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I have a ice cream tub full of mosses. I will condition the CPD with cyclops and daphnia from a friend.

The mosses I will place in later over the weekend. Thanks for the advice.

The other inhabitants are a mixed bunch of CRS and sakura shrimp. Should be ok as I havent seen the CPD try and snack on them yet :)
 

Mortis

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I would suggest going about it the same way as zebra danios. Start off with a single male and single female first before trying with a harem. Keep both Male and female separated and isolated for a week. Condition both with high protein food. At the end of the week add the male to the female's tank AT NIGHT and switch off all the lights and cover the tank with bin bags or whatever until it is completely dark. In the morning when you turn on the lights, the female should start dropping eggs and the male will follow and fertilize them. Once thats done take out both the male and female. Repeat using another pair if you want. Later on you can see what happens using more than one female.

Best of luck
 

mlgt

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What type of food would you be feeding them? I feed mine frozen cyclops, flake food and they sometimes grab the shrimp granules that I leave for the CRS.
 

altaaffe

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I used to breed them in a hi-tech planted set-up with lots of Blyxa. I didn't do anything particularly different for them in there I had about 30 in a 180 litre with Amano shrimp. They would constantly be driving each other through the mounds of blyxa and I would just syphon off water after they finished and put it into one of several fry tanks.

As the fry grew they were then transferred to a grow out tank.

Once I stopped - ready for moving house, I just converted the tank to lo-tech and still found a few fry which escaped being eaten.
 

mlgt

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Ive managed to put a few CPD fry into my nano shrimp tank.
However worried they are not feeding as I tend to put a few crushed pieces of fish flake.

How has your cpd fry been fed?
 

mlgt

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Ive managed to find about 20 CPD fry all around a few mm big.
Ive transferred them into my nano where I keep my cherry shrimp. However havent had much luck. I feed them every other day with cyclops and I have only counted 5 at the most.
Have the rest died?
 

altaaffe

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I mainly fed them on Hikari first bites and a crushed golden pearl food but I stopped breeding them almost a year ago so I can't remember where I picked that up from, seemed to do them good though. I also used to put in crushed peas now and again.
 

mlgt

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Righto. I just hope they have a chance to feed as most of the food for the shrimps sink to the bottom.
 

a1Matt

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With all the moss you have in the tank, I am sure they can survive off of the biofilm until they get to a size where they are big enough to eat along with the adults :)
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
With all the moss you have in the tank, I am sure they can survive off of the biofilm until they get to a size where they are big enough to eat along with the adults
Very true, it is a great fry raiser. Another advantage of using moss is that it is very effective at snagging passing micro-worms, these are a good fry supplement and much easier to keep than continually raising BBS.

I've got a micro-worm culture available, PM if you want to start your own. There are also Banana and Walter worms which are similarly easy to culture and even smaller.

cheers Darrel
 

mlgt

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Thats great. I will dump a whole load more of java moss into the tank tonight.

Ive been keeping different mosses in ikea vases recently :)
 

a1Matt

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I have my culture still from when you gave it to me earlier this year Darrel.

I mention this because I am seeing Rik this Sat at the Living Waters meet, so can bring some along for him if he wants it (or if anyone else does for that matter).
 
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