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calling ceg4048

bridgey_c

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4 Jan 2013
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135
Obviously this is for everyone but I know ceg is the master. I have spent the morning researching this following dilemma and I still can't find a satisfactory answer on any threads and I am stumped.

I have been keeping planted tanks now for a while with a level of success im happy with however I am always looking for explanations and reasons for why things happen. I believe this is the only way to improve things and also to come up with new ideas. I know this will be a lot more in depth than it first seems but here goes. How does T. Amano achieve high levels of Co2 absorption in his tanks?

For a start he uses ceramic diffusers when I understand in-line reactors provide much better levels of saturation. He doesn't even have his co2 bubbles flying around the tank, the diffuser is generally placed at the opposite end to the inlet pipe and the bubbles appear to head straight for the surface with only a few seconds of time in contact with the water. Even his larger tanks seem to have this set-up. Obviously his plants flourish so he must be attaining the 20-30 ppm of co2 somehow. Maybe the majority of co2 dissolves at the surface of the diffuser and the bubbles are a bit of a red herring? Maybe his little surface agitation releases very little co2 back into the air therefore high levels of input of co2 aren't needed? As I understand many of ceg's posts, Co2 flow and distribution is the very first problem we need to resolve and the cause of most issues so how is Amano doing it?

Any ideas?
 
He's running lower level lights than most anticipate so co2 is easier to get into the water in sufficient quantity, his par levels are about 50 at the substrate, also if you watch the videos typically the diffusers do spread bubbles around the tank just not to the same extent. 20-30ppm is pretty easy to achieve even with ceramic diffusers and all the rest because co2 is pretty easy to get into the water, if it was hard people wouldn't end up gassing their fish so often also, Amano isn't overtly concerned with what is most efficient I would suspect looking through the product range so I wouldn't consider his way as the best or most efficient way, just another way ultimately the plants needs never change it's just how they're delivered that does.
 
I'd agree that his lighting is lower than you'd expect when reading his stats. You think it's megawatts but they are always raised high.
it probably also has something to do with the daily maintenance schedules his staff operate in reducing any organic build up. He has no doubt finely tuned his light co2 and fert dosing to perfection.....mark Evans seems also to have found a great method for outstanding tanks also without overkill of anything in particular.....sickening I know as i too have often wondered about how it's done looking at amano's tanks, they do seem to lack flow and distribution but look awesome!
 
He's running lower level lights than most anticipate so co2 is easier to get into the water in sufficient quantity, his par levels are about 50 at the substrate, also if you watch the videos typically the diffusers do spread bubbles around the tank just not to the same extent. 20-30ppm is pretty easy to achieve even with ceramic diffusers and all the rest because co2 is pretty easy to get into the water, if it was hard people wouldn't end up gassing their fish so often also, Amano isn't overtly concerned with what is most efficient I would suspect looking through the product range so I wouldn't consider his way as the best or most efficient way, just another way ultimately the plants needs never change it's just how they're delivered that does.

Ditto
 
Raised high and have underpowered ballasts to keep the over all punch down. Tanks succeed when they're getting enough of what they need, it's really as simple as that once you've broken it all down, if you want to add less co2 etc and decrease all the demands, you reduce the light and things become easier to control because it's easier to meet the demands of the plants.
 
I ask myself that all the time when I have a tank that just doesn't want to behave and play by the rules. :D
 
Cheers for the replies.

My first few tanks were old second hand ones with old t8 lighting. I remember the first time I had t5 lighting and I couldnt get the tank settled for months. Constant problems. I sometimes think I would be better off going back to t8 lighting with longer lighting periods. Does anyone know if it makes any difference to plants whether you have a higher par light for shorter periods or lower par light for longer periods? I would guess it wouldn't make any difference so long as the total energy provided was equal, dunno though?

I've still not got it straight in my head though how amano gets 4ft tanks to have 30ppm co2 using a single diffuser that doesn't look like it is very efficient and only one outflow, maybe I would have to see his tanks in person to really see the co2 bubble patterns as the videos I have seen don't show them too clearly. I have never set-up a 4ft tank but if it was that simple why do people have two cannister filters, in-line reactors and extra flow pumps in their tanks? Are you saying they are OD'ing on light?
 
The other thing to bear in mind is on the bigger Amano tanks there's a sump with maybe 3 diffusers in there pumping away at full tilt. I would suggest that they're his big diffusers and working flat out is how he gets the co2 up to level, plus, lower light means it might not even need 30ppm.
 
Lol you make it sound so basic & simple..... It make you wonder why so many try but fail !
Because they worship at the Klingon Temple of Megawatt.

I sometimes think I would be better off going back to t8 lighting with longer lighting periods.
CORRECT!!!

Does anyone know if it makes any difference to plants whether you have a higher par light for shorter periods or lower par light for longer periods?
Yes it makes a difference. High PAR causes high damage, while low PAR causes low damage.

Also, people need to take a reality break. When you see a picture of a tank, you cannot see all the work and heartache that went on before the image was taken. You also cannot see how many staff were cleaning, prepping and removing damaged leaves and algae. That's why Mark decided to lower the light energy input to his tank. It's really very simple.

Cheers,
 
I've still not got it straight in my head though how amano gets 4ft tanks to have 30ppm co2 using a single diffuser that doesn't look like it is very efficient and only one outflow, maybe I would have to see his tanks in person to really see the co2 bubble patterns as the videos I have seen don't show them too clearly. I have never set-up a 4ft tank but if it was that simple why do people have two cannister filters, in-line reactors and extra flow pumps in their tanks? Are you saying they are OD'ing on light?
Lower levels of light mean you need less turnover, less co2, less ferts, this is how Amano tanks get away with what on paper would seem impossible if we follow the ground rules we adhere by, I would suggest that most hobbyists are running perhaps twice what Amano does in PAR and as such we need nice big turnovers etc, I find that even with lower light however a nice high turnover is no hindrance so I'm happy to have more than realistically I need. I mean, I'm running a 20l tank with a 700lph filter on it, I could run a eheim 2213 at 400lph comfortably and still have enough flow but then I would have less wiggle room in the system, I would also be treading a thinner knife edge between enough and too little turnover. 30ppm isn't the be all and end all too, a very highlight tank might need 40ppm a low light could be happy with 20ppm aiming for an arbitrary 30ppm is something I notice on ASW all the time as a problem so I think it's wise to say Amano has enough co2 but it almost certainly won't be 30ppm.
 
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