Discussion in 'Carbon Dioxide (CO2)' started by Gregory Day, 12 Oct 2019.
can anyone recommend a 4 way splitter
You will need 4 needle valves/bubble counters to make this work
Just make sure the splitters are in parallel and not series otherwise controlling the CO2 will be near impossible - there are some series splitters on the market which are not fit for purpose. Four single ones would work also with the right connectors just need to make sure the working pressure gets to each splitter.
The one pic that 'Ed' posted looks like its in parallel to me
Where can I get one
E bay here not cheap
Don’t forget your regulator will need to be capable of running at quite a high pressure to run multiple diffusers.
50 psi maybe?
CO2 art regulator
Sorry M8 I completely disagree with you on that one the main pressure pre regulator is 1000psi for the main part of the cylinders life before refill is needed so the CO2 will have no trouble keeping to pressure at 20psi pre spliter even if supply six big tanks on high injection rates, the cylinder wont last long OFC. In fact the lower the working pressure of the reg the bigger the pressure difference so the CO2 will flow faster and maintain a lower working PSI easier IMO
@ian_m and @zozo you guys missed this one - should have linked them in my reply OFC
I rather do not comment to deeply into this matter.
But i guess it all depends on the diffusers working pressure.
My question would be that given the more gas released per minute the cooler the liquid Co2 will become, therefore causing further Co2 to be cooler when released; with this in mind then what affect would this temperature drop have on pressure throughout the system given the temperature differences with even more diffusers? The diffuser’s working pressure is constant to some extent that we keep our water temps constant and those diffusers are subjected to that temperature, so there has to be a limit whereby the system can’t deliver that pressure. You’re forcing a faster release rate from a standard, publicly available sized cylinder.
Are we saying that hooking up a dozen diffusers in parallel is the same as connecting one from the same gas bottle? That simply can’t be true due to the change in flow rate and resultant temperature of the Co2 from the source.
I’m willing to be schooled here and genuinely interested in an answer, just that I haven’t heard an adequate response yet on any forum as to where the limit is. Pressure is related to temperature and release rate effects temperature.
If you want a more diverse spread of pressures a regulator would have to be fit for that purpose i.e. calculated size bore and pressure resistant material to contain higher pressure at cooler temperatures with fatigue or failure across serviceable life taken into consideration.
Just wondering why main public consumer manufacturers of Co2 regulators won’t sell manifolds with four outlets connected to standard sized pressurised cylinders. Is this a good idea for the OP to pursue without consulting an expert opinion?
IMO the flow rates we use even with six tanks with high BPS the reg will handle it. If it doesn't the working pressure drop OFC and that's easy spotted.
Why is the number six so special? What if someone follows this advice and connects n’th number? I get the point that it may be obvious that diffusers won’t work anymore under certain conditions, but even this is a move forward from the proposed idea from the previous post. If recipients were thinking about this proposal seriously they would wonder where the potential failures were and what consequences it may hold.
A Co2 gas cylinder in the UK with its valve open under ‘normal’ operating temperatures is safe to BS341 standards. Affect of carbonic acid is equated for BS 21/2779 for o rings and pressure related use to 240 BAR but temperature extremes can degrade materials, shortening lifespan. Who services these components. Who inspects them?
I’m not trying to be annoying by bringing these matters up but who is the authority on advising the OP on foreign components to run a pressurised system with a high amount of potential energy release? Darwin awards exist for a reason and granted, pressurised Co2 is low risk compared to other materials. Modifications to expected use does two things; hastens the lifespan of components and increases risk of failure.
I'm most experience with CO² and Tapping beer. And if you want to tap a beer correct you need CO² and when environmental temperatures change you need to change the system CO² pressure accordingly to keep taping a nice beer at same flow rate.
If the environmental temperature falls the beer tap CO² pressure needs to be lower. There are diagrams to find how to set a beer tap installation pressure correctly for in (pub) and outdoor (festival) environmental/seasonal temps. I guess also in English. tho i didn't find any. But the pressure it requires at 20°C = almost 2 bar, and 30°C it must be set to almost 3 bar to keep the beer flowing at the same speed.
I guess the CO² delivery dynamics stay the same in where ever you send it to. Aquarium or beer keg doesn't change anything.
I never noticed that the pressure needs to be increased on a larger number of beer taps in a system with 1 CO² bottle. Generally, on room temp it is set to 2,2 bar. Then if 6 beer taps are in the system working with one regulator set to 2,2 bar all taps get the same pressure and have the same flow speed even when all are opened at the same time. But the CO² bottle will be empty sooner with operating 6 taps simultaneously. Working with multiple destinations the regulator should have the proper flow through capacity. This stands beside set pressure.. Than indeed a regulator can freeze operating under a high CO² flow rate.
Do we like special beers than it might be we need an extra regulator if this beer requires a different pressure to tap decently? In the beer tap industry, there are double regulators available to fit one bottle.
I've seen beer tap installations that had the entire CO² line station mounted to the wall with multiple regulators parallel on one huge CO² bottle.
Now I'm not very deep into the physics of gas dynamics to back it up with formulas, numbers and fact sheets. But obviously, for all media transportation the size of the installation has an influence on the working pressure needed to transport volume and mass from point a to b. Than line length from source to destination has an impact and on multiple lines from one source, the line length to all destinations should be the same.
At the end of the line, in a closed system it doesn't impact pressure it will be as set on the regulator as long as it is closed. But it will impact flow rate if when the line opens.
as the product 'Ed' posted comes with six splitters
I am not an engineer so forgive me if my science is wrong, I was coming from my own experience. Runnning 2 x inline diffusers from 1 regulator I found things were much more efficient at somewhere near 50psi. That is all.
I have considered it for myself at home and these were my considerations -
I assume you would want 4 or even 6 manifolds to run multiple tanks off one regulator and bottle. Consider the solenoids. Would you want all diffusers coming on at the same time?
Do you want CO2 tubing trailing from 1 tank to another?
How big is your CO2 bottle gonna be?
Also what happens when your timer fails or bottle runs out and you donot notice/haven’t got one/are on holiday, you have an issue in all tanks rather than just the one.
Personally I’d only want to use that many manifolds with a high end regulator, almost commercial grade. The ones I have used and would be confident in are GLA and Oxyturbo, maybe the higher end CO2 Art Elite one at a push also.
Hope that clarifies my thoughts
Thanks for all your replies
sorry wrong topic..I was dreaming..
All good points m8. I have had no issues running twin solenoids off my CO2 Art Ultimate regulator and not notice any working pressure drops even with my insane CO2 injection rate even when both solenoids are open and a 6.5Kg bottle lasts about 30days.
I also do like to keep the CO2 tubing as short as possible as it helps reduce pressure lag when the soleniod comes on and off.
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