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Consistency Deficiency

They’re so pretty 🤩

Lots of good news in the tank too. Looks like things are starting to come around.

The perfect time to blast it with photons of course! Wouldn’t want you getting bored! 😂 👍
 
@erwin123 , @Hufsa
Guys, perhaps you could start a new thread dedicated to Ammannia pedicellata Golden. It's rather new cultivar, it seems to me. I have it for a month now, in-vitro plants, still small but growing. We could share our experience each other plus others within this forum.
 
Monday update with sunday pictures, Ive been feeling a bit under the weather again so I didnt have the energy to write up a post yesterday, sorry about the delay

Ive kept the plant health pictures full size as I know @Happi likes to zoom in real close :watching:
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Leading with the FTS, sorry about the reflection its just who can even be bothered with those curtains for one picture 🤷‍♀️
I upped the CO2 a bit, I think I am hitting around 30ppm at the moment, didnt do that ph profile yet but took an end day ph measurement that came to 6.2, so should be a full 1.0 drop.
My critters dont seem to care one bit, but the plants have been pearling earlier and more.
Drop checker liquid in this picture is the weak-sauce one from CO2Art that I tried pimping with a few drops of bromothymol blue solution. It helped a bit I guess, but I think I need to make a mix from scratch to get one with proper color saturation.

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Second spathe of Yujii opened up, the right way this time :thumbup: One of my new friends was checking it out

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The bee shrimp are really visible when out and about in the tank, I have a special fondness for the boldly red and white striped type, they remind me of candy

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Having some flowering on the Buces now too, Brownie Blue finished its flowering a while ago, this variety seems to flower easily. But I was suprised to see Blue Green and Pearl Gray (I think) is sending up flowers now too. Do you guys reckon its because of the photon torpedo shenanigans ive been doing?

Assorted plant health pictures attached below;
Chlorosis has overall increased again.
My gut instinct is saying accumulation might be a key factor in play as of late.
In periods this summer I have changed less water, and it feels like maybe the plants did better after 2-3 weeks with no WC?
I need to reread the past few months of my journal and check it with calendar notes about water changes, I just havent had the energy to do so yet.
If accumulation has helped then that means the next direction to go in / test would be increased amounts

I would like to hear what you all think I should do next, would like to hear from everyone as long as no arguments break out :)
 

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Magnesium deficiency is more pronounced on well-illuminated parts of the plant.
Plants react to increased CO2 supply by down-regulating chlorophyll formation, while anthocyan levels remain the same (that's why the plants' leaves are red).
Curled top leaves may be a sign of Ca deficiency, but also B, Cu, Mo, Ni. (The latter two I consider very unlikely.)
I would really love your input on why my Tonina greened up quite rapidly a while back, when I used two following micro mixes;
The difference seems to be in higher Mn share. Lack of Mn can be mistaken for lack of Mg or Fe. There are also competitive relations among many (micro)nutrients. If you dose a mix of micros, the risk of competition is probably increased.
I still believe that you should count your Na content as quasi-K, and adjust your ratio (Na+K) : Mg : Ca closer to 1 : 3 : 10 (by weight).
In the past, I sometimes faced the problem of whitening leaves best illuminated approaching the surface. I can't say I've solved the puzzle successfully. I guess there are innate differences among species in their ability to mobilize nutrients to well-illuminated leaves depending on pH & bicarbonate content.
That's some hints from me.
 
the cryptocoryne madness continues and today "Silver Queen" opened its first spathe
My Nurri red flowers all the time, but that one is something else! love the colour of the spathe! Now I want one of those lol
 
Just got a few things I need to get written into the journal, ill do another round of pictures on sunday :thumbup:

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My little candied friends are still doing well, although my camera focus leaves something to be desired 😅

Right now my two Fluval Plant 3.0 (46W) lights are running at 100% Red, 50% Blue, and 70% Cold White, Pure White and Warm White.
Im calling this an average of 70% intensity in my mind. (The 3.0 spectrum is very high on Blue and low on Red, so my settings might bring it a little bit closer to even.)
Based on the Fluval customer support PAR data some helpful ukaps user (whos name escapes me at the moment) posted, these are the numbers for the 46W;
3"=7.62cm 470 PAR
6"=15.24cm 267 PAR
12"=30.48cm 112 PAR
18"=45.72cm 66 PAR
The back of my substrate is about 35 cm from the lights, and the front about 40 cm away. As you can see the numbers drop off the further you get away from the light source, but not in a linear fashion.
Still, I think this kind of PAR data (I dont even know if this was with all the channels at 100%?) will be guesswork at best. The only way to know for sure would be to actually measure my tank with a proper sensor. So I think its acceptable to assume that any numbers worked out from the above data will be an estimate and not exact.
Just to keep things simple for what is already a guesstimate, I averaged the PAR for 30cm and 45cm and got approx 89 PAR for 37cm.
70% of 89 is ~62, so with two lights I might be sitting somewhere around 124 PAR.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that 100 PAR is a pretty good place to be, so maybe I should go back down to my previous step, ill need to give it some more thought.
Im most tempted to just keep it like it is now and see how it goes.

Photoperiod is still 8 hours with 30 minutes for ramping added before and after. I tried out having 1 hour ramping but it didnt feel quite right to me, so I went back to 30.
If I ever run out of problems I can always mess around with this at a later point, although increasing to 10 hours sounds much nicer than longer ramps, so more hours will probably be higher on the list of shenanigans.
But im not going to do that until I have fixed some other persistent issues.
For a while whenever I was in doubt about something regarding plants I would think, "What would @dw1305 do?".
I have recently added "What would @KirstyF do?" to my toolbox.
Im finding this one to be a highly effective shenanigan repellant :geek:


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First spathe on the smaller/second Crypt yujii opened today 😊 They are initially filled with air when they open underwater :geek:


The two main problems in the tank is our good old chlorosis issue, which we are fairly close to solving I feel, and the thread algae issue.
The thread algae issue is a very problematic one. My budget is limited and in order to buy more expensive things for the tank I have relied on sales of shrimp and plants.
The shrimp colony was struggling last year and the population was getting very low, not helped by the scutariella parasite and frequent water changes due to medication. The shrimp are thriving again and the population is recovering very well, but they are not numerous enough that I want to remove any yet, and I still have about 2-3 months of biweekly Praziquantel treatment planned to be absolutely certain the parasite is gone.
Unfortunately, I havent been able to sell any plants lately either, as I dont feel its ok selling plants affected by algae and especially not thread algae of such an annoying kind as the one I have acquired. It sucks throwing out loads of cuttings that are very rare locally and that could help fund my hobby.
I also need to eradicate the algae problem completely before I can send plants to other hobbyists like @Wookii , im not so keen to give him a disease worse than duckweed and if I do im not sure we will be friends any more 😂
Mid autumn is the perfect time to ship plants, so time is ticking!

The amount of thread algae got pretty wild while I was away on holiday, but it seems to have settled down a little bit now that I am home and doing my regular maintenance.
Contrary to what some might believe, I do in fact manually maintain and look after my tank and dont sit around all day thinking about fertilizer and ratios 🙄
It is in fact possible to have several aspects of plant keeping in mind at the same time and writing about one thing doesnt mean thats the only thing I think about or do anything about.
I personally dont find pictures of removed algae and pruned plant leaves very interesting to look at, so I dont take photos of that and dont post them to my journal.
But I digress..

In addition to the regular maintenance, for the past two weeks I have added a half dose of Happy-Life Algin Regular which is a Salicylic Acid based treatment.
The half dose seems to be well tolerated by the Thiara sand snails.
Im changing the water once a week currently, but I think I will increase this to twice a week to see if I can get this problem properly beaten with some more elbow grease.
The long drawn out struggle is getting annoying.
Im not able to say yet if the Salicylic Acid is helping or not, so please dont go out and buy it because you see it mentioned here.


I dont have concrete picture proof arranged but I feel like my plants (especially the hungry ones) take a bit of a dip right after water changes and spend some days getting back on their feet.
This suggests to me that maybe the water column is getting too lean after my large water changes (I like to do 80-90% because clean water), and I want to start again to add some ferts back in right after the WC.
I happened to look at the Masterline ferts lineup the other day, and they recommend adding three times the normal dose back into the water right after a larger water change.
This isnt exactly the first time I have read about front loading, but it refreshed it my mind and I think it makes sense based on what im seeing from my plants.
Especially if im going to do water changes twice weekly. Havent decided how much to add yet but ill figure something out.


My Nurri red flowers all the time, but that one is something else! love the colour of the spathe! Now I want one of those lol
Ah how cool! Nuuri has a red spathe or am I misremembering? Please note I now have the correct ID for that crypt in the picture, it was actually Cryptocryne yujii, not Silver Queen. Its possible either the importer or the store got the ID mistaken for my plant. I dont mind though, the yujii is very nice too 😊


Curled top leaves may be a sign of Ca deficiency, but also B, Cu, Mo, Ni. (The latter two I consider very unlikely.)
So in your opinion the downcurled leaves on the Pantanal could be an induced Calcium deficiency, or possibly B or Cu?

I still believe that you should count your Na content as quasi-K, and adjust your ratio (Na+K) : Mg : Ca closer to 1 : 3 : 10 (by weight).
What would getting to this ratio accomplish? Im sorry, maybe you have written it earlier but I have bad memory :sorry:
Ive tried wrapping my head around this ratio, I assume by weight means mg/l or ppm?
My tap water Na is about 5 ppm. If I were to get my K down to 2 ppm, the value for Na+K would be 7.
I remineralize currently to 10 ppm Mg and 30 ppm Ca.
1 : 3 : 10
7 : 10 : 30
So to compare the ratio I would have to divide all the numbers by 7?
1 : 1.4 : 4.2
To get your ratio for my Na+K value of 7 I would then have to add 21 ppm Mg and 64 ppm Ca, that would work out to a GH of 13.7 :oops:?
Please correct me if this is the wrong way to work it out?

Im sorry but so far I find the ratio thing quite hard to get on board with, and there are so many people who dont care about this at all that grow very nice plants 🤔
I still dont quite understand how this could be applied to my tank?
 
I dont have concrete picture proof arranged but I feel like my plants (especially the hungry ones) take a bit of a dip right after water changes and spend some days getting back on their feet.
This suggests to me that maybe the water column is getting too lean after my large water changes (I like to do 80-90% because clean water), and I want to start again to add some ferts back in right after the WC.
I happened to look at the Masterline ferts lineup the other day, and they recommend adding three times the normal dose back into the water right after a larger water change.
This isnt exactly the first time I have read about front loading, but it refreshed it my mind and I think it makes sense based on what im seeing from my plants.
Especially if im going to do water changes twice weekly. Havent decided how much to add yet but ill figure something out.
After ready Greggz's explanation about this, I've also increased my dosing immediately after water change.

Currently I'm doing a double daily dose after water change and zero dose the day before. Might move to a triple daily dose after water change
 
Im sorry but so far I find the ratio thing quite hard to get on board with, and there are so many people who dont care about this at all that grow very nice plants
As I understand it, ppm should mean the same as mg/L (at least in given circumstances).
I've suggested to go closer to the ratio I consider ideal. I remember very well that your tap water contains 5 mg/L sodium. I've cursed it already.
I've also noticed that today, you said:
The two main problems in the tank is our good old chlorosis issue, which we are fairly close to solving I feel
So what's your intention?
Generally: People don't care about ratios and still have nice tanks. Well, yes, but quite often when I take a closer look, I can see some irregularities, deficiency symptoms. I don't think your plants are short in potassium, neither they seem in need of calcium. But magnesium is definitely worth considering.
What's you level of bicarbonates?
 
As I understand it, ppm should mean the same as mg/L (at least in given circumstances).
I've suggested to go closer to the ratio I consider ideal. I remember very well that your tap water contains 5 mg/L sodium. I've cursed it already.
Would this be a general increase in GH then in your opinion?
So what's your intention?
My intention is to fix the chlorosis issue, im just not yet convinced that what you are suggesting will bring me closer to that.
Generally: People don't care about ratios and still have nice tanks. Well, yes, but quite often when I take a closer look, I can see some irregularities, deficiency symptoms. I don't think your plants are short in potassium, neither they seem in need of calcium. But magnesium is definitely worth considering.
But if I increase Magnesium like you seem to suggest, that would be nowhere near that 1 : 3 : 10 ratio? It just doesnt add up to me
What's you level of bicarbonates?
The water works filter their source water over marble, resulting in a Calcium value of 21 (as reported by them). As far as I understand marble (or calcite I suppose) is CaCO3 so I believe this is why I receive an equal value of KH and GH, both come only from Calcium, which is why we assume my tap has about 0 Magnesium.
I plugged 21 ppm Ca into the rotala calculator and got the following;
KH and GH is not something I am super good at so I only have a basic understanding, do these numbers answer your question?
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Maq said:
I still believe that you should count your Na content as quasi-K, and adjust your ratio (Na+K) : Mg : Ca closer to 1 : 3 : 10 (by weight).


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My Water Supply Report
Ca : 15mg/l
Total Hardness as CaCo3 : 39 mg/l
Magnesium: 0.28mg/l
Sodium: 19mg/l (unusually high - but thats what my report says.. maybe because one of our water sources is desalination?)
There is no potassium reported so I presume 0

I add 2 mg/l of Magnesium and 3.2mg/l of K a week

So my NA+K: Mg : Ca ratio is

22.2 : 2.28 : 15 (rebasing Na+K to 1) I get:

1: 0.1 : 0.68


Appreciate if Maq can confirm that this is how to calculate the ratio ? And If I've calculated it correctly, it seems so far away from Maq's 1:3:10 ratio that all the plants in my tank should be half dead by now?
And sorry again for posting in this thread... but Maq doesn't have a separate thread about his ideal Na+K:Mg:Ca ratio as otherwise I would have asked him in that thread....
 
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Would this be a general increase in GH then in your opinion?
Yes. But don't overestimate the meaning of GH. It's just a technological number covering two elements out of dozens.
But if I increase Magnesium like you seem to suggest, that would be nowhere near that 1 : 3 : 10 ratio?
Still, I believe magnesium is possibly the right response to your chlorosis of well-lit leaves.
KH and GH is not something I am super good at so I only have a basic understanding, do these numbers answer your question?
Yes, you've got it correct.
There is no potassium reported so I presume 0
Not necessarily so. Potassium is considered harmless so the water processing plants are not required to monitor it. That's why it's regularly missing in their reports.
Appreciate if Maq can confirm that this is how to calculate the ratio ?
Yes.
And If I've calculated it correctly, it seems so far away from Maq's 1:3:10 ratio that all the plants in my tank should be half dead by now?
Dead? Noooo. Plants are very plastic, esp. in Mg:Ca ratio. I'm aware very well that majority of all hobbyists keep potassium levels exceedingly high. And I don't insist it must inevitably lead to a disaster. You could prove me wrong quite easily.
I've spent no little time searching for optimal ratio. I could not believe it myself, at first. Less and less potassium in relation to calcium + magnesium, until I've arrived at the ratio I recommend as a reference. Only then I realized that it happens to be quite close to 'average' ratio that occurs in nature. No matter if the water is soft or hard, calcium is regularly far more abundant than other cations. That's why plants developed mechanisms for preferential uptake of potassium and we cannot 'unteach' them to do so.
Yet I must stress two important things:
(1) I'm a low-tech guy. I'm not in a hurry when it comes to plant growth.
(2) Another important ratio is N : P : K! 16 : 1 : 4 molar. By weight NO3 : K =< 6.3 : 1.
 
Still, I believe magnesium is possibly the right response to your chlorosis of well-lit leaves.
Thanks for this 😊 Thats something I should be able to try adjusting fairly easily, I dont think the addition of some more Magnesium will affect my shrimp much.
Would you advise me to add more Magnesium (10ppm more?) to the water change water, or would you add it as a part of the macro fertilizer?
 
Would you advise me to add more Magnesium (10ppm more?) to the water change water, or would you add it as a part of the macro fertilizer?
Not quite sure I can understand your question correctly.
I suppose you dose some blend daily? Or do you have a stock solution of MgSO4 or MgCl2 separate?
You know, I don't see much use for daily fertilization. I'd see it differently, perhaps, if I run hi-tech. Still, I'd suggest to add some more Mg with water change.
I also noticed that you are somehow laboring with your lighting. Light and CO2 may be of importance, too. When these factors are in ample supply, plants respond with decreased formation of chlorophyll. If properly balanced, it can lead to bright red leaves, because formation of anthocyans is not diminished. But I've got little experience in balancing illumination, and none in injecting CO2.
Magnesium (and iron) means chlorophyll. CO2 and strong lighting means less chlorophyll.
 
Still, I'd suggest to add some more Mg with water change.
How much more Maq, in ppm?
Im only adding Mg in the water change water once a week, nothing in the fertilizer.
Which ratio is better in your opinion;
1 : 2.1 : 4.2 (by adding 5ppm more at WC)
1 : 2.8 : 4.2 (by adding 10ppm more at WC)
 
Just a note for my own reference, @KirstyF decided that I should go back to 0.2 ppm Fe with the EDDHA mixture again to see if we can establish a good baseline with the plant improvement I saw earlier, and just ignore the pink water for a bit.
That has been running since yesterday, so this will be together with the increase in Magnesium.
Planning to filter most of my intended changes through the new Kirsty method, so far it has had a 100% success rate at treating Consistency deficiency.
I simply ask myself "Will Kirsty think this is a good idea?" and if no then I dont do that thing yet.
So far this method has stopped five crazy plans, two bank robberies and an idea about joining the circus.

See you tomorrow with some plant pictures :wave:
 
Just a note for my own reference, @KirstyF decided that I should go back to 0.2 ppm Fe with the EDDHA mixture again to see if we can establish a good baseline with the plant improvement I saw earlier, and just ignore the pink water for a bit.
You could try burying EDDHA-Fe Ice cubes in the substrate to see if it works - eventually the Fe might leak into the water column, but if it does so slowly, maybe the pink tint will be less obvious.

Handling tip - the moment you grab the ice cubes with your hands, the ice cubes will start melting and your hand will be stained pink - make sure you don't wipe your hands on a nice shirt!
 
I got invited to an impromptu barbeque today on very short notice, so I found myself in a huge rush to get the water change and maintenance done before I leave.
The phone camera was either sensing my stress or having a bad day itself, so the whites are a bit blown out and the focus is terrible (that last one is probably on me).
The tank is refilling right now with a timer on, so im throwing these pics up so certain individuals who shall not be named (Happi + plantnoobdude) wont start crying about no update 😉

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(All pics were taken before maintenance please excuse dirty intakes)

Baby Pantanals from the windowsill are doing pretty good, I would rate most of them a "kinda grumpy" on the Pantanal Angry Scale :thumbup:

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Tonina could be greener. The tank is in a transition period right now where the 0.2 EDDHA mixture hasnt taken effect yet, so im not expecting to see any results today. Just posting for the records.

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Golden surprised me with a little bit of growing after I pinched off the tops. Not expecting this to last.

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This is the curling I am seeing in Super Red @Happi
Im not sure if its the water change or the replanting that is causing the curling, because they often happen at the same time.

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Hope to see these improve in a bit

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Some of the less demanding plants like Crypt "Purpurea" are growing more normal looking leaves.
I had my suspicions the earlier strong pattern was affected by chlorosis. The current pattern is in my opinion prettier and looks more like a healthy leaf.


One of my new shrimpy friends scared the sh*t out of me when I saw it curled up strangely on a leaf and staying very still. The tank had just been fed but this shrimp was not making its way over to the food.
I thought maybe it had gotten terribly injured somehow because of the strange leg placements, or was dying, and immediate thoughts of my terrible parenting and how bad I was at looking after critters rushed through my head.
Then I saw that the little weirdo was actually chomping down on BBA!!
I see the shrimps rifling through the BBA all the time looking for things to eat, but this shrimp was bending all the way down and shoving actual tufts of BBA into its little freaky mouthparts :clap::lol:
I can only guess that the BBA might be on its way to die, because they dont eat healthy BBA.

shrimp 1 om.jpg shrimp 2 nom.jpg
 
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