I just read an article on a Malaysian ADA planting Demo. http://www.slipperylittlesuckers.com/ Very similar to the ADA Planting Demo at The Green machine they used a lot of "pre stuff" as part of the preparation on the glass base before they added the main substrates. The list below is the stuff they used on the Malaysian Demo. The powders: Bacter 100, Tourmaline BC, Clear Super, Penac P and Penac W The trouble is they only used a thin covering of each sprinkled over the base plate before adding the main substrates. This stuff does not come cheap and considering not much of it was used you would have to do about 20 tanks before it was used up. So unless you have got 20 tanks (I haven't) the stuff would not get used again until the next time you rescaped your tank. Then the there's the Brighty Green Step 1, 2 and 3 and all that again not cheap. Sooooooooooo :idea: .......what I am thinking is that maybe if a few people were going to go for a new setup trying out all the ADA stuff, what would be the possibility that a few people were willing to split the cost, divide it up and share it out amongst those sharing the cost. We could save a bomb and still get the results we want. Daraaaaaaaaa!! Or am I dreaming? Cheers. Steve.