Discus Dan's disastrous endeavours in decorative delight

[discusdan]

So I mixed up a batch of jelly fuel to test one of the containers just in the off chance they would work, sadly they didn't and disapointingly no explosions either just an unpleasant yeast smell for a few days.

So I binned that system and started again, this time with some two liter bottles and some proper co2 line, same set up as before and every thing is siliconed in place.

Still no real progress with the tank though, I'm still trying to find a decent bit of wood for the left hand side, I wanted this in and soaked befor I started adding the plants.

I'm not 100% sure but is the piece of wood I have already Mopani wood? I'd like to try and get the same wood If i can but having no luck finding a large enough piece.

Also the bit of wood I have in the tank already is starting to form algae, i'm not sure of the type, its a bright white colour and looks like really fine hair. Its grown quite long in some places but I can't get a decent picture of it.
I can't see any other signs of algae in the tank only on the wood.
Does any one know what type of algae it is and the best course of action to remove it. It cleans off easily enough but starts to come back after a few days.

Lastly I've made a few choices on plants I'm going to order, I want to go with things that are quite hardy and easy-ish to grow.
Because I want to keep discus my water temps are up at 27-29c with the lights on, Do you think these plants will be ok at these temps?

Hemianthus callitrichoides

Eleocharis acicularis

Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'

Chladoflora (Moss Ball)



Echinodorus argentinensis

Echinodorus hormanii

Echinodorus rose

Echinodorus uruguayensis


Cyperus helferi

Echinodorus cordifolius

Micromanthemum umbrosum

Sagittaria platyphylla

Aponogeton Madagascariensis Bulb


Hydrophila compacta (mini)


Not going to be using all of these it was just a selection of the ones I liked.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Hey, the algae on the wood will likely just be mould as the wood leaches nutrients and tanins into the water. Normally you can add shrimp and ottos to eat it, its worth giving the wood a good scrub from time to time with the filters off and a water change to help clear it up if arent ready for livestock yet. I have heard it can get out of control if not managed...
Wood looks like mopani, have you tried TGM for another piece.
Couldnt advise on the plants with discus and high temps but again TGM have a discus plant section that would be worth looking over. I would suggest HC would be an issue, mainly because it likes CO2 and DIY likely wont provide enough, tennelus might be a better option with discus and DIY...??

 

[discusdan]

cheers for the reply, I'll have a look on the green machine website.

I was going to add some bumble bee shrimp once things where up and running.

I was considering using riccia fluitans instead of cuba but it seemed a lot more work to use it as a carpet. Do you think it would be a better choice than cuba?

I'll have a look into tennelus.

Also the yeast reactor is mainly for fun and untill I can get hold of an fe or co2 cylinder to upgrade the co2 input.

thanks.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Hey, crystal red or black shrimp will become expensive food for your discus once you get them in. Amano shrimp would be your best bet as long as they manage with high temps.
Riccia carpets are great but their also high maintenance and messy. Unfortunately i dont know enough about discus to really advise but think they tend to rip up and/or eat smaller delicate plants?? which was why i suggest tennelus but maybe they will tear that up too?? Stauro is seen quite a lot in discus tanks as it is a heavy rooter and once established its pretty hardy.

 

[discusdan]

cheers for the info.
I like the look of staurogyne repens and tennelus so i'll look into them.
the discus are a long way off yet, i'm hoping to get all the plants in and well established before I add any of the larger fish.

 

[discusdan]

quick up date,

I mixed up some more jelly fuel to try out the new system and hurrah! it seems to be working.

Its pushing out bubbles at quite a steady rate

I've got the diffuser underneath the 405 outlet as I read its a good way to spread the co2 across the tank, though I might have to change this slightly as the hole tank is now full of tiny bubbles!

I've just got one 2 liter bottle on the go at the moment as I want to test how long a yeast batch will last befor it starts to drop off. I'm hoping for at least two weeks but I plan to change one bottle every weekend to keep the co2 as consistant as possible.

one think i've noticed is the diffuser is making quite a loud hissing noise, I can hear it above the filters. Is that normal?

for any one interested the jelly fuel mix is as follows

half a pack of jelly cubes dissolved in 100ml of hot water
250g of caster sugar dissolved into the jelly mix, this will give roughly 1 pint.
put it in the fridge to set. You dont want the jelly to go stiff you want it as a thick goo but still runny, a couple of hours in the fridge should be enough.

add half a tea spoon of baking powder to the 2l bottle (baking powder is best as it contains starch which should make the yeast last a bit longer)

next pour in the gooie jelly mix then fill the bottle with warm water, leave about 2 inches free space at the top.

give the bottle a shake, you dont need to go mad a quick shake will do.

now the important part, get a small glass and add 1 inch of warm water, 1 tea spoon of sugar and half a tea spoon of yeast. Mix thoroughly for a minute untill the sugar is dissolved then leave to stand for 10 minutes.

the mix should froth up to the top of the glass, after 10 mins pour the yeast mix into the 2l bottle and connect it to your system.

for good results you have to active the yeast, if you just pour the yeast into the 2l bottle straight away it will kill some of the yeast and not be so effective.

Doing a quick sum if I keep to this recipe and change one bottle a week it will cost about £20 a year.

 

[jack-rythm]

What is this jelly fuel you speak of? Some sort of DIY co2 mix?

Cheers! Jack

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Hey glad to hear you got it set up and its working. Never heard of jelly mix before so will be interesting to see how it goes.

though I might have to change this slightly as the hole tank is now full of tiny bubbles!

Thats the idea, bubbles should be reaching ever corner of the tank.

 

[discusdan]

The jelly fuel was something I stumbled upon on this site.

Apparently the jelly acts as another food source for the yeast and helps to give a more consistent co2 supply as well as making the batch last longer.
Not sure if its true or not but day 2 and its still bubbling away like mad and as jelly is so cheap I thought I'd give it a go.

I read jelly fuel can last up to 6 weeks! though like I say i'm planning to change one bottle out every weekend to keep the co2 input as consistent as possible, I suspect that after 3 weeks the co2 really starts to drop off.

diffuser is still really noisy though?

I Might have to make a larger bubble check as well. At the moment its filled right to the top with bubbles and I dont want to chance any liquid getting through to the diffuser.

other than that it seems to be working well, might soon be time for plants

 

[discusdan]

So I don't know if its a good idea or not but before blowing a load of money on the plants I want I thought I'd try a starter pack of stem plants.

for a fiver Its mainly for experimenting and trying my hand at planting, and just to see if they will grow in my tank or probably in my case die and cause problems.

It was lucky dip with what plants you get, I have no idea what any of them are but I do like a few of them, so if any one can help me ID them that would be great.

When I start buying the plants I intended then I suspect a lot of these will come out but for the time being I'll see how they grow and what I can learn from them.

so this is what I got.

planted around the mopani wood.

A few along the back, I suspect these will get blow out of the substrate when the air stone turns on. I'll find out in the morning.

I planted these two in the open area as I wasn't to keen on them, I suspect they will be the first to come out.

And this is how things look at the moment.

Just trying to find out what I've got now


I also fitted a bigger bubble count to my co2 system. I found that the smaller one was filling up with bubbles on the surface and liquid was getting through to the defuser.

This larger one seems much better.
I also found that with the jelly fuel it really froths up in the bottle and liquid forces its way into the air line which probably wasn't helping with the smaller bubble count over filling.

So now I've left a good 3" of space at the top of the bottle and also plugged the top of the bottle with some filter floss, this seems to help keep the froth from entering the air line.

Its been 4 days and I'm still getting a steady 1 drip per second on the bubble counter, i'll see how much longer it lasts before changing it out.

 

[discusdan]

So finally after weeks I've found another piece of mopani wood I liked that goes well with the bit I already have.

Spent a few hours today putting it in position and doing a bit of a clean up and move around.

Now I can start buying the plants I intended and get things moving
seems a lot of the ones i'm after are out of stock, is it a seasonal thing?

Also be doing a bit of reading about EI ferts so probably going to order a starter kit tonight.

also pulled out the proper camera and took a few shots.

Does any one know what this plant is called? cant seem to find it any where.

 

[discusdan]

I got hold of a HMA filter and went about fitting it today.

I have hot and cold water pipes running through my room which I was initially going to hook the filter up to But after some thought I decided against that idea as I was going to be using a self piercing clamp and having never used one before I wasn't 100% confident in its success.

So I opted instead to run the tubing through into the bath room and under the sink

This means I could fit the self piercing clamp above a shut off valve and if it leaked I could easily shut the water off and replace the copper pipe.

Thankfully the self piercing clamp seems to have worked a treat and II can control the flow of water to the HMA filter with the blue tap.

This means I can have the filter in my room which should make water changes so much easier. I've just got to keep my eye out for leaks but fingers crossed it will be ok.

The holes in the wall get covered up by a box to neaten things up.

No real progress with the tank.
The jelly fuel has been running for two weeks now and is still showing 1 drip a second on the bubble count though it seems there are slightly less bubbles in the tank, I think 3 weeks max is what i'll get out of one bottle. On a smaller tank you would probably be able to run it a lot longer.
I'm going to change 1 bottle a week to keep the co2 as consistent as possible.

Also got hold of a EI ferts starter pack which i'll start using next week, just got to calculate the dosage for my tank.

ordered some new bulbs as well but they've not come yet. There to replace an original bulb that came with the tank and a marine blue???

Going to be ordering some plants next week as well and get things moving, short list so far is

Echinodorus tenellus​

Eleocharis acicularis​

Alternanthera rosaefolia​

Echinodorus argentinensi​

s

Cyperus helferi​

Echinodorus cordifolius​

Sagittaria platyphylla​

Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping​

think I like swords

Also Because I'm running a DIY yeast set up for the co2 I'm running an air stone during the day while the lights are off to try and disperse as much co2 as possible to make sure the fish are happy "when I get some"

I was planning on running it during the night as well but its just to loud, is there any thing I can use in the tank to get surface agitation thats quiet?

I don't want to move the filter out lets as they are pushing the co2 about nicely and I want something that I can put on a timer.

Can any one recommend something?

Also one last thing, Is it ok to uproot and replant stem plants frequently? I find it a lot easier to remove the plant from the tank to clean and prune etc, also as I have sand they sometimes go adrift by themselves, Is it damaging the plant to keep doing this?

cheers.

 

[Ady34]

Hi Dan,

Also Because I'm running a DIY yeast set up for the co2 I'm running an air stone during the day while the lights are off to try and disperse as much co2 as possible to make sure the fish are happy "when I get some"

I was planning on running it during the night as well but its just to loud, is there any thing I can use in the tank to get surface agitation thats quiet?

I don't want to move the filter out lets as they are pushing the co2 about nicely and I want something that I can put on a timer.

Can any one recommend something?

cheers.

Koralia nano in tank circulation pumps are silent and can be positioned to aid overall circulation and create good surface agitation.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[discusdan]

excellent, that looks like the kind of thing I'm after. thanks for the reply.

 

[discusdan]

Right Finally got some plants ordered! Here's the list


Echinodorus parviflorus
Echinodorus red devil
Eleocharis acicularis
Echinodorus reni
Cyperus helferi
Echinodorus radicans
Alternanthera rosaefolia
Tropica Vesicularia ferriei
Echinodourus Tenellus
and i got a free portion of Riccia Fluitans just to try out.

This is what it all looked like out the box.

This this what the tank looked like before planting with just a few stem plants I bought previously.

and this is how it looks now.

This set up with probably change slighty at the weekend when I attach the weeping moss to the mopani wood. The moss is in the blue pots at the moment as I didnt have time to attach it to the wood and I wanted to get the rest of the plants in.

Whats the best method of fixing the weeping moss to the wood? For the riccia I used some fishing line which worked ok but was a right pain to do.

I've read people use super glue to attach moss to slate/wood. Has any one done this and did it work, also did you notice any negative effects to the tank with the super glue?

Also whats the best procedure for pruning the cyperus helferi? there's a few broken and yellowing stems that I want to remove and promote new growth.


cheers.

 

[discusdan]

took a few more pics with the slr

And this is for a little project I'm testing. I'll update about this later if it works, If i never mention it again you know it failed

 

[discusdan]

Went to the LFS at the weekend and saw that they had some new Amano shrimp in so had to have some.

I've never kept shrimp before but have to say their the most entertaining things to watch. Mind you the girlfriend went a bit squeamish when the guy tried to get them into the bag and they started jumping about all over the place, she soon hid behind me

While I was on a roll I went to another fish shop which has just opened and they had some siamese flying fox, I'd read about how good they where at keeping algae in check so I had to get some, though I didn't realize until I had got home that in my haste I had confused them with SAE's (siamese algae eaters)
Still there a great looking fish and should help to keep the bottom clean.
One thing I noticed was a bit of strange behaviour between two of them, at first I thought they where nipping at each other but as i watched more it was like they where dancing, swimming round and round in circles with each other and rubbing bodies. I caught it on camera so i'll upload it at some point.

Watching them tonight some beautiful colours are starting to come through.

 

[Ady34]

Hi Dan,
Wow, some great photos there!
They look like crossochelius siamensis (Siamese flying fox), as you say and are good algae eaters. Mainly beneficial at preventing bba.....after good tank husbandry, good co2 and excellent distribution of course!!
The tank is coming along really nicely. I'd be inclined to tie the moss with cotton/fishing line as you have already done. Its a pita to do in situ but easier than superglue for me at least. In my experience superglue in an already running system is difficult to do neatly and effectively as everything is wet and also difficult to physically get to properly......unless you were planning on removing your wood to do it in which case its much easier.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[discusdan]

hey Ady, thanks for the reply I really appreciate it.

At last I'm starting to see some progress with the tank. I've ordered a few more plants and that will be it for a while. Going to concentrate on what i've got and hopefully get them nicely established.

Then it will be slowly adding the majority of fish.

Planning on getting a few juvenile discus, and a nice largish shoal of dwarf neon rainbows, then once they have settled in possibly adding a pair of juvenile angles and a funky fighter but will see how it goes.

I tied the moss down at the weekend, in the end I removed the bits of wood and used a fabric mesh and fishing line. not sure how well its going to show though, I could have done with a lot more moss but its quite expensive

cheers.

 

[Pedro Rosa]

Those photos from Amanos are ... something really beautiful ... thank you very much