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Discussion on substrate and fertilization

I think that plants can be grown in inert substances providing the water column is dosed. However, there are many synergistic benefits to also using a good substrate as described in some of the responses you linked, especially one with a high CEC.

In terms of providing nutrients alone, they will attract and bind inorganic nutrients added to the water column and thus be available for root uptake. The high CEC and nutrient content of soil substrates, for instance, can act as a safety net buffering against the occasional missed nutrient dose. This discussion may be of help The Soil Substrate Planted Tank - A How to Guide | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society. The upshot is - both is often best.
 
Troi said:
The high CEC and nutrient content of soil substrates, for instance, can act as a safety net buffering against the occasional missed nutrient dose.
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I believe that that statement is slightly incorrect and misleading. A substrate with a high CEC and is nutrient rich is what it is and most plants will feed from here as well as the water column. CEC is the ability of a particular material that has the ability to soak up and release nutrients taken from its surroundings, so a substrate material with a "high" CEC is a bonus.

Depending on the type of plants you choose and want to grow will determine the type of substrate (or no substrate) and fertilization you will need. "Quote" You could also consider the type of substrate (or no substrate) you want then consider the type of plant that will be best suited for your choice. These choices are also dependent on what type of fish you have or would like to keep. Boisterous and large fish would undoubtedly demolish a beautifully planted tank. Hope that helps. :)
 
mal, I'm not entirely sure what you mean, could you perhaps explain a little further...do you perhaps think that statement a little tautological? Meanwhile, this is as good an explanation as any of Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC), and fairly accessable Cation-exchange capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Sorry Troi. Maybe a little tautological, yes. It was in response mainly to why Jaap also believed in the original post. I was saying that it depends on the plant you want to keep. Most aquatic plants do require a nutrient rich substrate and the substrate to be of a certain grade particle so that the plant can anchor itself to the substrate by means of root growth and also uptake nutrients available from the substrate and the water column promoting good plant health. Then you have the non dependent substrate plants that feed from the water column. I believe the key point here is "good plant health and growth". And this does not take into account lighting and co2.
 
Exactly. I've never met a plant that requires a rich substrate. Which plants are you thinking about?
I've grown all manner of plants in nothing more than sand or LFS gravel or inert clay.
Plants need to be fed, there is little doubt of that, but there are no plants that can only feed from the sediment.

Grade also does not matter.

Cheers,
 
I think you can provide an enhanced substrate that will benefit the plant's ,but I too have grown them in nothing but plain sand,gravel.
Me think's with enhanced substrate, along with water column dosing,Is win/win for plant''s.
Was laughed at on other forum's, where water column dosing with mineral salt's was viewed with same reverance as a turd in the punch bowl.
Plant's do better for me...with nutrient's available in both the substrate,and the water column.
 
So i am now led to believe i can put myself a beautiful "Dutch" style tank together with nothing more than local quarry gravel as long as i feed the water column. LOL
 
mal blackburn said:
So i am now led to believe i can put myself a beautiful "Dutch" style tank together with nothing more than local quarry gravel as long as i feed the water column. LOL
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Yes. Providing other growing conditions are met. :)

This aquascape is plain quartz gravel.

6330045456_614bae7ecc_o.jpg
iwagumi2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Specialist substrates certainly help, but they're not necessary. Appropriate light, CO2 and other nutrient dosing and delivery, and maintenance are far more important IME.
 
ceg4048 said:
Exactly. I've never met a plant that requires a rich substrate. Which plants are you thinking about?
I've grown all manner of plants in nothing more than sand or LFS gravel or inert clay.
Plants need to be fed, there is little doubt of that, but there are no plants that can only feed from the sediment.

Grade also does not matter.

Cheers,
Click to expand...


Rubbish Quote or what ?

I will profess I am not an expert in any manner of aquatic plant cultivation.

I too have HAD plants grow in sand but did not do very well as maybe could have. I fed with liquid fertilizer once a week. I cannot see Crypts liking to grow in gravel very well either. Try anchoring hair grass type plants in gravel too. LOL. So it seems to me that grade (particle grade that is) does matter.

So then we add JBL balls or root tabs to enhance the substrate for nutrient up take by the roots. Ah now we have a nutrient rich substrate now that will accommodate most plant types.

I think that what stirred me is why Jaap put forward the question to the forum members what we think about the "original post" stating plants dont require a nutrient rich substrate but take their nutrients from the water column solely. And also what we think about water column dosing at the same time.

My point I am trying to get across is I would EXPECT to believe that most/many plants will require a nutrient rich substrate and regular fertalisers for any kind of decent growth. My Aponogeton Crispus being bought back from an almost dead state has now a flower stem that is at least 12" high.

Roadmasters comments exactly...........
 
You guys say that grade does not matter. Please make things clear fir me on the subject of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in the substrate. I have read this before in other posts about how sand compacts itself and doesn't allow water circulation thus delivering less nutrients to roots and no oxygen for aerobic bacteria. Obviously I understand no nutrients are required to be delivered to the roots since they can be delivered through water column but what about bacteria? Is there any truth in that?

Thanks!
 
Hi Mal, it is obviously possible to grow plants very successfully with a basic inert substrate as long as there is sufficient fertiliser in the water column but that does not mean it is the best way & I am sure that the majority of us like to use some form of substrate nourishment.

I made a log tank where the plants were just held in place with a little gravel & their roots were allowed to feed directly from the water.. a bit like underwater hydroponics!
Substrate like cat litter will allow water column ferts to penetrate in the grains & feed the roots too.

plant22.jpg
 
So why use ADA or any other substrate product when cat litter or sand would suffice ??? Do these commercially designed products offer better plant health and growth ???
 
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