your values seems to fit very closely for a 7 x week but for N and K that would bring the concentration to 38.5ppm total (10.5+28). Wouldn't that be too much?For "Solution 1" I'd aim for 20 ppm NO3 and K, 5 ppm P, 2 ppm Mg in the tank.
The "4 times a week" dosing is plenty.N and K that would bring the concentration to 38.5ppm total (10.5+28). Wouldn't that be too much?
There isn't really a right or wrong answer, it is going to depend on the amount and intensity of light (PAR), how quickly your plants are growing, what plants you have, how much CO2 is available etc.What is difficult to understand is what is too much or too little or just right in terms of ppm.
Thank you. So you are saying that ATP is not suitable for aquasoils like Amazonia from ADA or Black Earth from Cal Aqua Labs?The values of APT Complete that Dennis Wong posted on his website are for NO3 and PO4, not N and P.
Its designed for active substrate (or dirted), with lots of Nitrogen in it.
Found it, <"JUST 1ML PER 20L ADDS THE FOLLOWING: 1.5ppm NO3, 0.7ppm PO4 & 4ppm K">.APT Complete that Dennis Wong posted on his website are for NO3 and PO4, not N and P
To convert P2O5 to P you multiply by 0.436.
If you want to know how much PO4--- that is, it is bit more complicated because you need to know the percentage of P in P2O5 (43.7) and the percentage of P in PO4 (32.6), the divide 43.7/32.6 = 1.34, so 10 mg/L P2O5 = 13.4 mg/L PO4, to go the other way around PO4 to P2O5 its 32.6/43.7 to give you multiply by 0.747.
Its designed for active substrate (or dirted), with lots of Nitrogen in it.
You need @Penta to comment, but my reading would be that the APT mix is designed for substrates (like ADA Amazonia) with a reserve of nitrogen (N) present. Because of this the "ATP complete" it is very light on nitrogen, when compared to its potassium (K+) etc content.So you are saying that ATP is not suitable for aquasoils like Amazonia from ADA or Black Earth from Cal Aqua Labs?
Noted. I think I will just stick with Jame's Planted Tank formulas but the issue has never really been choosing a formula but making the calculations specially the ones relating to the micros as most formulas are referring to CSM + B so I have to figure out the weights of every individual element (S, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, Zn). As I said before CSM + B is not an option as too expensive considering my location and NIC-SPRAY clearly has too much copper. So I am left with using individual trace elements, which I already have anyway. For you clearly all these calculations seems like a breeze but for me the chemical names and their formula, coupled with percentages, mass, ppm etc etc etc makes it a nightmare . I was never good in chemistry.but my reading would be that the APT mix is designed for substrates (like ADA Amazonia) with a reserve of nitrogen (N) present. Because of this the "ATP complete" it is very light on nitrogen, when compared to its potassium (K+) etc content.
If you do them as a ratio of N: P : K for "ATP complete" it is: 3.4 : 2.3: 40
((1.5*0.224): (0.7*0.33): 4. I multiplied them by 10 to make them easily comparable).
Personally I just wouldn't get too bogged down in exact ratios, replicating some-one elses recipe etc. Just choose values and make the solution up, you can tweak it afterwards, if you need to.
That is it.For example Potassium Nitrate will always be 13-0-46
Yes, just use one of the calculators.For you clearly all these calculations seems like a breeze but for me the chemical names and their formula, coupled with percentages, mass, ppm etc etc etc makes it a nightmare . I was never good in chemistry.
For the micro-elements you will need to use some maths, but it is exactly the same process you used for KNO3 etc.Joke aside now I need to figure out how to calculate the weight of each trace for the DIY TPN+ (3) or PMDD+PO4 formulas
So we need to do a bit of conversion.The TNC Trace, Chempak and CSM+B traces come in powder form and have been made into a solution by adding 3g of trace to 250ml of water....and the content of the TNC trace was "0.002%" Mo.
Yeah, rich Amazonia type substrat with Nitrogen and high CEC (because of low Fe dosing)
The % is already provided to me on the package of each element.For the micro-elements you will need to use some maths
I assume it's the same as CSM+B as James states in his PMDD+PO4 formulas:I don't know what is the recommended dosing for "TNC trace" is, but if you did? You could use the "12 g in one litre (1000 mL)" to find out how much Mo is in one mL of made up solution.
TNC is stronger but CSM+B contains Magnesium which is already present with the macro mix so I guess TNC it is.6g EDTA Chelated Trace Elements Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)
I understood the principle and all but one issue remains. I was going to calculate the weight of each element on the rotalabutterfly but I couldn't because some of the elements are not listed, namely, Manganese EDTA (Mn-EDTA 13%), Boron (B 20.9%), Zinc Chelate (Zn 14%), Copper Chelate (Cu 14%). Same with the Zorfox calculator.If I use my "100 litre aquarium" (just makes the maths easier) and aim for 0.02 ppm Mo, I'd need to add 5 mg of Na2MoO4.2H2O as a dry salt. That is going to be fairly difficult, so if I aim to add it as a solution (as part of the all in one).
I could add 1 g of Na2MoO4.2H2O to 1000 mL of water and dose 5mL for the same result.
You would then need to work out all the other elements based on a 5mL dose (of your bespoke all in one solution). That would be part of the reason for making up three separate solutions.
Also for the solution 2 you recommended, what iron should I use? Iron DTPA (Fe-DTPA 7%) or Iron EDTA (Fe-EDTA 13.5%) or both?Solution 1: Macro-nutrients and magnesium.
Solution 2: Iron chelates.
Solution 3: Trace elements.
For "Solution 2" I'd aim for 0.5 ppm Fe in the tank.
The recipe is also really easy to tweak for differing values.Here's my Micro recipe and preparation instructions if you are interested.
500ml Micro Mix @ 1ml/10L -
Fe 0.15 ppm
Mn 0.05 ppm
Zn 0.04 ppm
B 0.03 ppm
Cu 0.002 ppm
Mo 0.0015 ppm
Ni 0.0005 ppm
This mix includes a liquid Fe Gluconate component, 'Grow Microbe-Lift Plants Fe' (bottle instructions 1ml/100L - 0.1 mg/L and the solution in the bottle is pH 3.05).
The preparation water is RO/DI.
I acidified the water beforehand using Ascorbic acid (I had this already and should have used it with the previous 5L preparation noted in my last post) and checked the pH of the solution before adding the salts. At the addition of each salt there was vigorous mixing to achieve near full dissolution (salt crystals disappearing on visual inspection after each shake of the bottle) then the pH probe was put in the resultant mixture and the reading was allowed to stabilise for 5 mins before it was noted down. The following list shows the respective weights of the salts addition and the resultant pH of the mixture, the Mo, Cu and Ni component is derived from individual pre prepared solutions (100ml containers dosing at 10ml/5L for Mo 0.0015, Cu 0.002, Ni 0.0005).
500ml Micro dosed @ 1ml/10L, Preparation as follows -
450ml RO/DI + 0.25g Ascorbic Acid - pH 3.2
+ 0.77g MnSO4.H2O (Mn 0.05 mg/L) - pH 3.42
+ 0.9g ZnSO4.7H2O (Zn 0.04 mg/L) - pH 3.5
+ 0.86g H3BO3 (B 0.03 mg/L) - pH 3.5
+ 0.019g Na2MoO4.2H2O (Mo 0.0015 mg/L) - pH 3.6
+ 0.04g CuSO4.5H2O (Cu 0.002 mg/L) - pH 3.68
+ 0.0113g NiSO4.6H2O (Ni 0.0005 mg/L) - pH 3.74
At this point the resulting mixture is clear with zero precipitation. The addition of the Fe increases the opacity of the mixture.
+ 50ml Fe Gluconate (pH 3.05 - Fe 0.1 mg/L) - pH 3.35 (Green tint to the mix)
+ 2.275g FeDTPA 11% (Fe 0.05mg/L) - pH 3.19 (Brown Green tint to the mix)
Thanks, help appreciated but unfortunately those unchealated traces will not be easily found here without buying loads at the time. All traces that I have are chelated except (if I am not mistaken) for the sodium molyddate (Na2MoO4.2H2O) and the boron (B). Also being in Thailand, buying Grow Microbe-Lift Plants Fe or products that one usually finds easily in Europe or the USA need to be bought through amazone or the like when possible (usually not due to their chemical nature), and shipping usual just makes it not worthwhile.If you can get unchelated salts for everything (to save on the math cos I hate that too) other than the Iron
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