Does light affect plant makeup?

JoshP12

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
301
Location
Canada
Hi all!

This thread is in some sense a continuation of <this post>. I felt that it required its own thread though.

So, once I got the tank balanced and could see the end of the tunnel -- if I continued doing what I did, it would grow in and I could focus on gardening, I decided to do what any rational person would do ... break it.

So, with EI dosing and the magic at least 30 ppm of CO2, flow unchanged, I decided to tinker with the thing that I feared for so long - light.

Slight context, prior to this little experiment/overlapped (because I am not a "good" scientist heh), I stopped dosing excel entirely -- I know, I know all of this is a recipe for disaster!!!!

I will say that I induced a carbon deficiency in my rotala (nothing else ... unless it is coming :eek:) -- it recovered though. Ironically, no algae on many of my "melted" leaves -- no idea why not.

Over the past week or two, I have probably doubled my light - not changing anything else.

Observations:
1) pearling is like I have never seen --- makes sense.
2) I did NOT clean the left bottom part of my glass, because I forgot (though I will claim it is on purpose to feel good about my experiment :angelic:) GSA on that part - and not noticeable unless your eyes are against the glass.
3) I have unhealthy Buce and healthy Buce in my tank - GSA on my unhealthy to begin with Buce -- I THINK (and please weigh in), the spores were already there ... I have simply sped up the process -- so in a month or two, I would see it form instead of 2 weeks. Interestingly, the healthy Buce have no algae - even with more light.

That's about it.

My question - am I just riding out a 2 week "glory" period where the tank hasn't adjusted and all of my plants are going to show deficiencies in about a week? I.e. I have drove the nutrient required by all plants so high and they are not ready for this yet (if this was the case, then I should have seen an algae bloom on my hardscape - no? Is the bloom the GSA?

I have a hunch that the RuBisCo in my plants will need to increase - but I am not sure.

Any insights?

At this current level of light, I will leave the tank for 2 weeks and just observe and then probably manipulate something else.

Josh
 

JoshP12

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
301
Location
Canada
I'm surprised with no replies!

I will share my observations as they come. Unfortunately/fortunately, I just got my auto top off yesterday -- the setting drops my water level farther than I had it (and increases surface agitation) -- I have to leave for 4 days come tomorrow so I am not sure whether or not I top the tank up to the water level that I "set" my CO2 at before or just let it ride and see what happens. I can't possibly dial in my CO2 in 1 day.

Also, I made a choice this morning which leads from < co2 by feel > ... my pH probe read .1/.2 ish off of my drop PRE auto top off ... my < dual drop checker > reads maybe .1 on both colors LESS than Pre auto top off. So I had to choose, whether or not to increase CO2 during my pre-light CO2 time or watch the tank with the current level (hope that in 1 day I didn't wonk out the system ...) and then adjust. I went with the latter, despite what our "tests" tell us :oops::oops: ... I'll also update my observations if this was a good or a poor choice.

As of this morning, pearling started without adjusting the CO2 (I can only assume that this is an indicator that CO2 is "ok" ... and I can't actually assume that anyways) -- and it brings me to a question that I know I have read the answer to on multiple occasions but just can't remember -- How much CO2 is considered excess (when dosing EI) ... in other words is the (and I am making this number up) 5 ppm CO2 less today than yesterday really a big deal. Of course, we can go into RuBisCo and stability and consistent environments, but that is where this observation leads me.

Josh
 

Tim Harrison

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
5 Nov 2011
Messages
7,602
Location
UK
My question - am I just riding out a 2 week "glory" period where the tank hasn't adjusted and all of my plants are going to show deficiencies in about a week? I.e. I have drove the nutrient required by all plants so high and they are not ready for this yet (if this was the case, then I should have seen an algae bloom on my hardscape - no? Is the bloom the GSA?
You could be walking a tightrope; at high light intensity there's not as much wriggle room. By the time deficiencies show it may well be too late and you could easily run in to problems.

As you're aware, the general rule is if you're upping the light intensity, up the fertz as well. That is unless you've a nutrient rich substrate and root tabs, or your EI fertz are well in excess of what's required already.

As of this morning, pearling started without adjusting the CO2 (I can only assume that this is an indicator that CO2 is "ok" ... and I can't actually assume that anyways) -- and it brings me to a question that I know I have read the answer to on multiple occasions but just can't remember -- How much CO2 is considered excess (when dosing EI) ... in other words is the (and I am making this number up) 5 ppm CO2 less today than yesterday really a big deal. Of course, we can go into RuBisCo and stability and consistent environments, but that is where this observation leads me.
You've answered your own question. However, high plant biomass infers a great deal of biological stability and a mature and complex system often equals greater robustness, so you could potentially get away with greater variability in parameters.
 

JoshP12

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
301
Location
Canada
You could be walking a tightrope; at high light intensity there's not as much wriggle room. By the time deficiencies show it may well be too late and you could easily run in to problems.

As you're aware, the general rule is if you're upping the light intensity, up the fertz as well. That is unless you've a nutrient rich substrate and root tabs, or your EI fertz are well in excess of what's required already.
Thanks for this. Do those fertz include CO2?

You've answered your own question.
I did :oops:? I'll have to re-read what I wrote 🤣.

However, high plant biomass infers a great deal of biological stability and a mature and complex system often equals greater robustness, so you could potentially get away with greater variability in parameters
This is very interesting. Thanks Tim.

Josh
 

Nick72

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2020
Messages
178
Location
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
I'm routing for you Josh.

You have the advantage of EI dosing, which usually means you have some extra N.P.K available.

It is a shame you potentially messed your CO2 profile with the auto-top-off just before going away - I'm sure I'd have done the same.

Best guess is you may get a little extra algae while away along with a lot of plant growth.

Remind me, what clean up crew are in the tank?

Oh, and where's the tank photo?
 

JoshP12

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
301
Location
Canada
I'm routing for you Josh.

You have the advantage of EI dosing, which usually means you have some extra N.P.K available.

It is a shame you potentially messed your CO2 profile with the auto-top-off just before going away - I'm sure I'd have done the same.

Best guess is you may get a little extra algae while away along with a lot of plant growth.

Remind me, what clean up crew are in the tank?

Oh, and where's the tank photo?
Thanks Nick! The auto doser should doser for me - but this morning I woke up to:
1593689898693.png


My wife thought I had seen a ghost. I've ended up topping the tank up to the previous levels and will just ride the evaporation for 4 days or so. Worse of two evils. Reduced photoperiod to 6 hours.

Not really much of a CUC -- just 3 ottos and a few amano.

Oh, and:
Size: 65 gallon
Lights: 2x AI prime at 55%
Flow: Spray bar
Filter: 365 GPH <-- bit slow about 5-6x my volume (purigen + foam + scrubby pads + fluval biomax)
Tropica + sand substrate + flourite below the higher portions
EI micro and macro daily
WC 60%'ers at least once a week at most twice.
DC = lime green
pH drop about 1.2 ish +/-
20 Neons, 3 ottos, 1 rubber lip pleco
Anubias, buce, ludwigia repens, rotala rotundifolia, s repents, crypt undulata, pogostemon erectus

1593041689888.png


Josh

Ironically, I am interested to see what will happen.
 

Nick72

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2020
Messages
178
Location
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Nice tank Josh. I remember it now from your other thread. Seems to be filling out nicely.

I've got a suspicion that you will be fine for a week, as long as you fix the balance when you get back to accommodate your auto-top-off.

I would be adding some additional clean up crew as well. It all helps.
 

JoshP12

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
301
Location
Canada
Just an update:

As a result of my ATO coming in, I have much higher surface agitation and I had to perform a "new" dial in ... man I am getting a lot of learning with this tank ... it brought me <this realization>.

The half of my buce that is unhealthy is not really recovering and it might be time to toss them (or toss them in a shady region and see what happens).

At any case, I still do not know if RuBisCo is light dependent, but I think it just doesn't matter whether it is or isn't: if you are doing it "right" anyways. High injection rate, high surface agitation = less time to depress pH and get stable = forget worrying about < ramp matching >= everything will be in check at lights on.

Josh
 
Top