Dosing hydrogen peroxide H2O2 with dosing pumps and diffuser?

enb141

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Hi guys, after seeing how Chihiros / Twinstar and Söchtinger Oxydator work, then I got the idea about why not dose H2O2 with a dosing pump in small quantities so with an difuser so this, AFAIK you will oxygenate the water and will also apply the Oxydator as the Söchtinger Oxydator and also will work as if you had an chihiros or twinstar generating the bubbles.
 

Witcher

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Hi guys, after seeing how Chihiros / Twinstar and Söchtinger Oxydator work, then I got the idea about why not dose H2O2 with a dosing pump in small quantities so with an difuser so this, AFAIK you will oxygenate the water and will also apply the Oxydator as the Söchtinger Oxydator and also will work as if you had an chihiros or twinstar generating the bubbles.
Plants can also oxygenate the water, would it be better to have more of them instead?
 

enb141

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Plants can also oxygenate the water, would it be better to have more of them instead?

They oxigenate at day, but not at night, that was one of the reasons I was using a chihiros but my mesh died so instead of buying a new mesh I was thinking to use H2O2 instead to do the same

Also, prolonged use of peroxide is not good for plants. Use is limited to temporary attempts to deal with algae, particularly BGA.
K

That's why I'm thinking of dosing it in small quantities, the Söchtinger Oxydator releases drops of H2O2, have you ever seen an Söchtinger Oxydator?
 

Ed Wiser

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I have used an Oxydator. Switched to the tiwnstar As it helps me keep an eye on my TDS too. Once tds gets above 325 the twinstar will stop working
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
They oxigenate at day, but not at night,
Plants <“massively”> contribute to oxygenation. People who don’t keep planted tanks often assume that plants don’t make that much difference, but they do.

The amount of oxygen produced can be measured by plant growth, the growth is the difference between the oxygen evolved and the CO2 incorporated.

A tank with plants have much better levels of oxygenation than an unplanted ones, even at night.
........was thinking to use H2O2 instead to do the same. That's why I'm thinking of dosing it in small quantities, the Söchtinger Oxydator releases drops of H2O2, have you ever seen an Söchtinger Oxydator?
We have a few <” oxydator”> posts (about 1/2 way down the page).

Cheers Darrel
 

sparkyweasel

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The Oxydator should not be releasing H2O2 into the tank. The H2O2 should be contained within the unit where the catalyst splits it into water and oxygen, all that should be released into the tank is that highly oxygenated water.
 

enb141

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Hi all,Plants <“massively”> contribute to oxygenation. People who don’t keep planted tanks often assume that plants don’t make that much difference, but they do.

The amount of oxygen produced can be measured by plant growth, the growth is the difference between the oxygen evolved and the CO2 incorporated.

A tank with plants have much better levels of oxygenation than an unplanted ones, even at night.We have a few <” oxydator”> posts (about 1/2 way down the page).

Cheers Darrel

Plants at night consume oxygen, and also even if planted tanks have better oxygenation at night, I still need more oxygen at night, the prof is that my Danios keep at top at nights.

The Oxydator should not be releasing H2O2 into the tank. The H2O2 should be contained within the unit where the catalyst splits it into water and oxygen, all that should be released into the tank is that highly oxygenated water.

They release H2O2 to the tank, after the catalyst releases oxygen, a tiny part of H2O2 enters to the tank.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Plants at night consume oxygen,
They do, but you will start from a much higher level of oxygenation at "lights off". The way to look at it is in a non-planted tank it is always "night".
I still need more oxygen at night, the prof is that my Danios keep at top at nights.
I haven't kept Danios for a long time, but I'm going to assume that is an oxygen effect.

A full tank shot would help and also a description of your filter and what filter media it contains?

cheers Darrel
 

Wookii

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The Oxydator should not be releasing H2O2 into the tank. The H2O2 should be contained within the unit where the catalyst splits it into water and oxygen, all that should be released into the tank is that highly oxygenated water.

That's not how they work unfortunately (it would be more reassuring if they did). All the little catalysts do is generate a tiny amount of oxygen within the glass vessel, this gas causes displacement in the container which forces H2O2 out through the tiny holes in the plastic cap at the bottom, at a controlled rate, and into the tank where is reacts (presumably with elements in the tanks water) and splits out into H2O and Oxygen.
 

ian_m

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All the little catalysts do is generate a tiny amount of oxygen within the glass vessel, this gas causes displacement in the container which forces H2O2 out through the tiny holes in the plastic cap at the bottom, at a controlled rate, and into the tank where is reacts (presumably with elements in the tanks water) and splits out into H2O and Oxygen.
Also any H2O2 in the water would react almost instantly with any organics in the water, thus probably completely negating any oxygenating affects. When I got a tour, around the "back" of a zoo, years ago, they auto-dosed H2O2 (@35% strength, which I am sure you are not allowed to have any more) into the penguin water to remove organics. Interestingly they claimed their water purification was "chemical free" ??? H2O2 and calcium chloride they added to the water were obviously not classed as chemicals...
 

Wookii

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Also any H2O2 in the water would react almost instantly with any organics in the water, thus probably completely negating any oxygenating affects. When I got a tour, around the "back" of a zoo, years ago, they auto-dosed H2O2 (@35% strength, which I am sure you are not allowed to have any more) into the penguin water to remove organics. Interestingly they claimed their water purification was "chemical free" ??? H2O2 and calcium chloride they added to the water were obviously not classed as chemicals...

I imagine a fair proportion of the H202 does react with organics, which is why the Oxydators are said (in the marketing literature) to aid water quality and clarity. They do appear to generate a steady stream of bubbles though, so I imagine they do provide an increase in DO:


Interestingly when I went to Proshrimp for a visit, they had one of these in every single shrimp tank.
 

enb141

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Hi all, They do, but you will start from a much higher level of oxygenation at "lights off". The way to look at it is in a non-planted tank it is always "night".I haven't kept Danios for a long time, but I'm going to assume that is an oxygen effect.

A full tank shot would help and also a description of your filter and what filter media it contains?

cheers Darrel

70 us gallons tank with fluval 307 canister, when my chihiros was new, my Danios were not swimming at top.

Also any H2O2 in the water would react almost instantly with any organics in the water, thus probably completely negating any oxygenating affects. When I got a tour, around the "back" of a zoo, years ago, they auto-dosed H2O2 (@35% strength, which I am sure you are not allowed to have any more) into the penguin water to remove organics. Interestingly they claimed their water purification was "chemical free" ??? H2O2 and calcium chloride they added to the water were obviously not classed as chemicals...

That's why chihiros, twinstar and similars don't run all the time, they just release bubbles in small amounts.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
when my chihiros was new, my Danios were not swimming at top.
That is useful.
70 us gallons tank with fluval 307 canister
It is more what is in the filter in terms of media? and how heavily planted the tank is?

I know from talking to people on other forums that "planted" and "heavily planted" don't always mean the same thing to different people. When I say <"heavily planted"> I mean this:

31491423096_76537814ef_c-jpg.jpg

But I know that for some other people "planted" means is has a plant in it (not necessarily an aquatic one), and "heavily planted" means there are two plants.

I don't personally see any need for <"Twinstars or Oxydators">, but I am also a fan of having plenty of oxygen in the tank. You can definitely tip over the edge if you use a strong oxidiser, and this can even occur just with the oxygen from photosynthesis <"under a special set of circumstances">.

Have a look at <"aeration and dissolved oxygen">. I wrote it, about 10 years ago, for rheophilic plec keepers (these fish are particularly vulnerable to low oxygen levels), but it is relevant to all fish keeping.

The issue with canister filters is that it is possible for the filter media, in your canister filter, to actually have an adverse effect on water quality in the tank, if the water becomes oxygen depleted within the filter. Have a look at <"Oase 250..filter mods">, it explains in more detail about what happens during nitrification.

cheers Darrel
 
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Oldguy

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low oxygen levels

I think that the 'Bohr effect' is often overlooked. As a user of injected CO2, I am always watching for behavioral changes in fish. If the catfish are taking the odd gulp of air but the rummy noses are bushy tailed then all is well. Thought about drip feeding H2O2 but not worth the effort, too much like a knife edge. Good article Darrel - 'aeration and dissolved oxygen'.
 
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Wookii

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Hi all, That is useful.It is more what is in the filter in terms of media? and how heavily planted the tank is?

I know from talking to people on other forums that "planted" and "heavily planted" don't always mean the same thing to different people. When I say <"heavily planted"> I mean this:

31491423096_76537814ef_c-jpg.jpg

But I know that for some other people "planted" means is has a plant in it (not necessarily an aquatic one), and "heavily planted" means there are two plants.

I don't personally see any need for <"Twinstars or Oxydators">, but I am also a fan of having plenty of oxygen in the tank. You can definitely tip over the edge if you use a strong oxidiser, and this can even occur just with the oxygen from photosynthesis <"under a special set of circumstances">.

Have a look at <"aeration and dissolved oxygen">. I wrote it, about 10 years ago, for rheophilic plec keepers (these fish are particularly vulnerable to low oxygen levels), but it is relevant to all fish keeping.

The issue with canister filters is that it is possible for the filter media, in your canister filter, to actually have an adverse effect on water quality in the tank, if the water becomes oxygen depleted within the filter. Have a look at <"Oase 250..filter mods">, it explains in more detail about what happens during nitrification.

cheers Darrel

You raise some interesting points as always Darrel.

I hope it's not going too far OT, but I find 'Heavily planted' hard to clearly define. The image of Tim's tank you posted above, isn't what I'd call heavily planted per se, that's just overgrown in that image lol (hopefully Tim won't mind me saying that) - 'Planted' to me suggests some intent as to the quantity and position of the plant mass. Purely out of interest, would you still define that scape as heavily planted once in its manicured form?:

29738848605_d9106093fc_c-jpg.jpg


I ask the question because I can't make my own mind up. On the one hand I think 'heavily planted' usually means the vast majority of the substrate is covered with plants, on the other hand though it makes me wonder whether, for example, Igwami style scapes, can be defined as 'heavily planted' or not?

Amazing_Iwagumi_Tank_Images.jpg


Coming back on topic then, at what level are we happy that the planting (or plant mass) is heavy enough to optimise the level of DO naturally? It bugs me that I can't accurately measure DO myself and actualy test empirically - maybe I will stump up for a DO meter one day.

For the Twinstars and Oxydators, personally I feel if they help to optimise the DO content of an aquarium, and have no negative side effects, they can be of benefit. Sure, they are not essential, and there are many many good tanks out there that have never used them. But I do believe optimised levels of DO are good for fish, good for minimising algal growth, and good for general tank health, and for me personally, I'm not convinced I can get sufficient surface agitation and/or plant photosynthesis to keep DO at optimum levels 24/7.

For me personally I like to 'check box' things, and having as few things to worry about with my tank as possible. EI with an auto-doser takes care of ferts, and allows me to tick that box that and not worry about the nutrient side of things too much. CO2 injection allows me to check the 'carbon' box and not have to worry unduly about insufficient levels. My auto-water changer ensures there is regular removal of organics in the water column and fresh water in the tank, so I can tick that box and not have to worry about that.

So the the Twinstar/Oxydator for me is another check box exercise that ensures there is plenty of DO around the tank at all times, and so it is another thing I can tick the box for and not have to worry about it.
 

enb141

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Hi all, That is useful.It is more what is in the filter in terms of media? and how heavily planted the tank is?

I know from talking to people on other forums that "planted" and "heavily planted" don't always mean the same thing to different people. When I say <"heavily planted"> I mean this:

31491423096_76537814ef_c-jpg.jpg

But I know that for some other people "planted" means is has a plant in it (not necessarily an aquatic one), and "heavily planted" means there are two plants.

I don't personally see any need for <"Twinstars or Oxydators">, but I am also a fan of having plenty of oxygen in the tank. You can definitely tip over the edge if you use a strong oxidiser, and this can even occur just with the oxygen from photosynthesis <"under a special set of circumstances">.

Have a look at <"aeration and dissolved oxygen">. I wrote it, about 10 years ago, for rheophilic plec keepers (these fish are particularly vulnerable to low oxygen levels), but it is relevant to all fish keeping.

The issue with canister filters is that it is possible for the filter media, in your canister filter, to actually have an adverse effect on water quality in the tank, if the water becomes oxygen depleted within the filter. Have a look at <"Oase 250..filter mods">, it explains in more detail about what happens during nitrification.

cheers Darrel

My tank, accordingly to your picture is 40% planted, if that picture means 100 % planted.

About aeriation, I've found, after reading your article that my tank has less area than most tanks, the dimensions are 100Wx45Dx60H

I really think the oxydizer (Chihiros) did a good job oxygenating at nights in my tank so that's why I'm thinking about dosing H2O2, the reason is because H2O2 is easier to find and because in the long run will be cheaper, the chihiros/Twinstar needs to change the net every 6/8 months but with H2O2 for the price of even 1 Chihiros replacement will have plenty of solution for months, of course the dosing pump will be the expensive part but the rest is pretty much cheaper.
 

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