Dropsy

[Conort2]

Hi,

Hope you’re all good?

I have a fish which all of a sudden has developed ‘dropsy’. It’s breathing extremely rapidly and very swollen. Now I know this is a broad term and can the swelling can be down to a number of things, bacterial, parasites etc.

Is there anything I can do to help this fish or is it a case of once the swelling develops and there is fluid in the body cavity that the fish is too far gone to save? Has anyone saved a fish with dropsy?

No other fish are affected. At the moment I am doing at least 50 percent water changes daily. I’ve ordered octozin but not sure if it will be of any help.

Cheers

 

[Tim Harrison]

I'd give eSHa 2000 a go. See if that helps eradicate the underlying problem.

 

[dw1305]

H all,

Is there anything I can do to help this fish or is it a case of once the swelling develops and there is fluid in the body cavity that the fish is too far gone to save? Has anyone saved a fish with dropsy?

They've all died for me.

Is it one of your Apistogramma? I managed to <"bloat my pair"> of Dicrossus maculatus with too much rich living, despite being warned that they needed very careful feeding once adult.

cheers Darrel

 

[Conort2]

H all,

They've all died for me.

Is it one of your Apistogramma? I managed to <"bloat my pair"> of Dicrossus maculatus with too much rich living, despite being warned that they needed very careful feeding once adult.

cheers Darrel

No it’s one of the new whiptails I’ve just purchased, I’m gutted. The female is absolutely fine and so are the other fish sharing quarantine with them.

I’ve seen mentions of Epsom salt baths but not sure it would be good for a fish which is from soft water. The fish is so bloated and breathing extremely rapidly I don’t have much hope for it. It’s been like this now since Sunday. I would be gutted if this was any of my fish but something so rare and what I was intending on breeding it makes it even worse.

 

[xZaiox]

Is there anything I can do to help this fish or is it a case of once the swelling develops and there is fluid in the body cavity that the fish is too far gone to save? Has anyone saved a fish with dropsy?

I would personally either treat with a potent antibiotic or euthanise. I've saved a fish with dropsy before using Seachem's Kanaplex, but like Darrel I've found they usually die. From my understanding, dropsy is an indicator that the kidneys aren't functioning properly for whatever reason. If the underlying cause is an infection, then they can sometimes be saved, but if it's a result of direct damage then I would wager probably not.

 

[Conort2]

I would personally either treat with a potent antibiotic or euthanise. I've saved a fish with dropsy before using Seachem's Kanaplex, but like Darrel I've found they usually die. From my understanding, dropsy is an indicator that the kidneys aren't functioning properly for whatever reason. If the underlying cause is an infection, then they can sometimes be saved, but if it's a result of direct damage then I would wager probably not.

I wouldn’t be able to get any potent antibiotics being in the uk. Or the time it would take to get here it wouldn’t be worth purchasing.

Quite gutting as the fish appeared to be in perfect health when it arrived, would really like to know what triggered it. Unfortunately I think there are too many causes of dropsy for me to actually know.

 

[xZaiox]

Or the time it would take to get here it wouldn’t be worth purchasing.

I like having antibiotics on hand preemptively for situations such as this, but yeah, they certainly wouldn't arrive in time for this particular case unfortunately.

Quite gutting as the fish appeared to be in perfect health when it arrived, would really like to know what triggered it. Unfortunately I think there are too many causes of dropsy for me to actually know.

Sorry about your whiptail. If a fish develops dropsy suddenly with no other symptoms I would likely assume a bacterial infection... parasites can sometimes cause it as well, but you would usually have other symptoms present beforehand if parasites are involved. It seems older fish are more susceptible to it too.

If you decide to euthanise, I find it helpful having a little bottle of clove oil lying around, it's a much more peaceful way for them to go.

 

[Tim Harrison]

I like having antibiotics on hand preemptively for situations such as this,

Not a particularly ethical use of antibiotics. There is serious concern regarding microbial resistance. For instance...

Antibiotic-resistant microbial populations in urban receiving waters and wastewaters from Tanzania

Antimicrobial resistance against certain medications in the pathogenic microbial community is globally increasing due to the continual discharge and d…

www.sciencedirect.com

If you decide to euthanise

I'd give eSHa 2000 a go. See if that helps eradicate the underlying problem.

Maybe just try this first.

 

[Conort2]

I'd give eSHa 2000 a go. See if that helps eradicate the underlying problem.

Will give it a go, I’ve got nothing to lose. Only plus is the fishes condition hasn’t worsened since it initially bloated and started breathing rapidly.

 

[Conort2]

Not a particularly ethical use of antibiotics. There is serious concern regarding microbial resistance. For instance...

If I’m honest fish treatments except wormers are usually not used by me. Normally good diet and frequent large water changes has served me well over the years. In all the years I’ve kept fish im not sure if I’ve ever had a fish with dropsy. Just a strange one as these had been at the supplier I purchased them from for a while. The male appeared to be in great condition so unsure what’s caused this.

Cheers

 

[castle]

In this case, I’d move to a different t tank, try some alder cones, Melafix and esha.

Change 100% daily.

If it makes you feel any better it will most likely been from stress. Surprised this wasn’t showing in shop tbh.

 

[xZaiox]

Not a particularly ethical use of antibiotics. There is serious concern regarding microbial resistance.

I agree that antibiotic resistance is a serious concern in general, but I also want my fish to survive in the case of infections. I rarely have to use it, and if I do then I minimise the amount I use by only treating in a small 25L quarantine/hospital tank (not the main tank). I believe Kanamycin isn't a particularly stable drug if it's not chilled, so it degrades shortly.
On reflection to your point though, perhaps I could go a step further by running the waste water through some activated carbon before disposing. Thanks for bringing that up

eSHa 2000

This contains: Ethacridine lactate, Copper sulphate, Proflavine hemisulphate. None of these will help internal infections. They will be most effective against gram-positive superficial infections/wounds. It's always good to start with the milder medications before moving on to antibiotics, but dropsy is not really something that can wait for the 'big guns'.

 

[mort]

I'd contact pier if you haven't already and see what they suggest. I'm guessing they have good in depth knowledge or these types of fish as they seem to deal with them alot. I don't really have any experience with them but I've never had any success treating dropsy due to it already being to late when the symptoms show. I have had fish that I've treated with bacterial infection meds (I also use alder cones like castle), which have lived happily for quite some time but it proved fatal in the end.

I wish you luck.

 

[FISHnLAB]

Not a particularly ethical use of antibiotics. There is serious concern regarding microbial resistance. For instance...

Antibiotic-resistant microbial populations in urban receiving waters and wastewaters from Tanzania

Antimicrobial resistance against certain medications in the pathogenic microbial community is globally increasing due to the continual discharge and d…

www.sciencedirect.com

Maybe just try this first.

Excuse me Tim but, how is saving a fishes life from a life threatening illness not "a particularly ethical use of antibiotics"? What a ridiculous comment imo🙄. Do you think humans are the only creatures on this earth that deserve the proper medical treatment?

 

[hypnogogia]

Excuse me Tim but, how is saving a fishes life from a life threatening illness not "a particularly ethical use of antibiotics"? What a ridiculous comment imo🙄. Do you think humans are the only creatures on this earth that deserve the proper medical treatment?

Might be controversial for some, but I’d rather a few fish die than incidence antibiotic resistance rises and we stop being able to treat the simplest of bacterial infections in humans.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do you think humans are the only creatures on this earth that deserve the proper medical treatment?

No I don't personally, but I understand that the over-use of antibiotics has placed us in a situation where we now have multibly antibiotic resistant bacteria. There is every chance that many, formerly curable, bacterial diseases may once again cause major mortality.

This is from NHS - England <"NHS England » Antimicrobial resistance (AMR)">.

Also, purely a personal view, but I'm very reluctant to take any antibiotics unless a clinician tells me that there isn't any real alternative. The reason for this is purely selfish, I have a good diet and I'm pretty sure that my gut microbes are in a good place, and that is where I want to keep them. If you like I want to avoid personal "new tank syndrome".

cheers Darrel

 

[FISHnLAB]

Hi all,

No I don't personally, but I understand that the over-use of antibiotics has placed us in a situation where we now have multibly antibiotic resistant bacteria. There is every chance that many, formerly curable, bacterial diseases may once again cause major mortality.

This is from NHS - England <"NHS England » Antimicrobial resistance (AMR)">.

cheers Darrel

Yep, that's why a responsible Aquarist only uses antibiotics when needed and takes measures to properly dispose of any leftovers or waste water.

Humans don't deserve superior care to animals imo. If anything we deserve less as they are already the innocent ones that we as a race are wiping from existence...

 

[MichaelJ]

What a ridiculous comment imo🙄

We usually shy away from expressing our disagreement that way... stay kind I think Tim's got a very valid point. Antibiotics is a bad thing if released into the wild due to the possible development of bacteria resistance - potentially making previously curable diseases incurable both among humans and animals.

But I think I see where you're coming from; If my fishes were seriously ill and the only way to treat them would be using a small amount of antibiotics in a quarantine tank, I would personally opt for that solution as well and figure out how I could safely dispose with the tank water afterward.... I never had to do it, and I hope I never will. It's one of those moral dilemmas.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[castle]

I guess I lean towards scientific advice on this, while I don’t really think any animal has a greater right to life that any other, I think humanity is charged with the future, and protection of all animals on Earth.

I don’t think casual dosing aquariums is going to be the tipping point, but it’s not helping. Thousands of kilos (of antibiotics) are given to Scottish salmon each year. Far greater amounts are given to pigs, turkeys and chickens.

My medical parter tells me it’s a nightmare now to give antibiotics out, there is a lot more resistance out there than we’re actively acknowledging.

 

[hypnogogia]

Sorry, I may have been a bit harsh with my wording😔. That is my opinion of the comment none the less. I probably should have said "what a ridiculous comment but, maybe I don't understand fully. Please explain".

I didn’t say that, I think you’re quoting @MichaelJ there.