Dry Start Method

[magpie]

Dear all

I know there are threads here referring to DSM because I read one last night - but the search facility doesn't like it, so I apologise if this has been done to death already but...

I'm thinking of using DSM in my tank - partly because this is my chance to learn how to grow aquatic plants successfully and it seems a jolly good idea and partly because it'll give me more breathing space to set up the CO2 system - order the inline diffuser from HOng Kong (unless anyone knows a good one for sale in the UK - still wide open to ideas) and sort out the best EI dosing system from proprietary bottle or whatever...

but as I understand it, DSM means keeping the substrate *just* wet -and I wonder how people manage who have a big tank with a decent slope in the substrate? Do you only plant the lower areas? Or can you keep something like COlombo Florabase damp all the way without over-saturating the low HC-growing areas?

thanks

m

 

[ceg4048]

Hi,
The dry start normally focuses on the carpet plants which would be planted in the front lower part of the slope anyway. The limits are your imagination if you wanted to add other plants such as stem to the aft areas but keeping the tank sealed to maintain humidity, along with frequent misting are the biggest factors if you wanted to use these bigger plants in the DSM. Larger plants such as stems and rosettes don't really have any issues with transitioning to submersed growth, but plants like HC are notorious for their reluctance to transition properly without disintegrating first. The idea is therefore to grow the carpet plants emmersed until you have built up sufficient mass. Normally, when you buy the carpet plants you only get very small portions and if these fade away during conventional startup routines of planting-and-then-flooding then you would have lost your investment.

Buying the portions and allowing them to spread in an emmersed condition gets you better bang for buck. You decide when you want to flood the tank and when they have spread to satisfactory carpet coverage.

Dry start also is very helpful in growing the critical bacterial population in the sediment so that when you flood the tank the time to cycle is not as long. Sediment bacterial population is the real measure of a tanks stability and robustness. It is this issue that results in so many algal issue on a new tank. Th rise of diatomic algae, for example, is closely correlated to sediment bacterial deficiencies.

So carpet plant proliferation and sediment bacteria population robustness should be the main focus of your efforts in DSM. From this perspective I don't think there is much of a priority that ought to be placed on background plants or aft slope issues, although this is not to say they are irrelevant, just that effort/benefit ratio is adverse.

Cheers,

 

[magpie]

Cegipedia, you are my hero...

can you tell me where the bacteria come from that will start colonising the Florabase? I have no existing tank - so perhaps I should beg some mulm from The Green Machine when I'm there? Or will the roots of the plants carry enough with them (assuming not 1-2-Grow gel, which I assume is sterile?)

thank you hugely

m

 

[ceg4048]

Well in terms of bacteria, it wouldn't matter whether you line the bottom of the tank with Florabase, sand, or even marbles. Bacteria are all around us on every surface of everything. They are airborne, and millions of them will even be on the surface of the roots and leaves of plants that you put into the tank. You never need to worry about where bacteria are coming from because you can't stop them from getting into the tank if you tried. Bacteria rule the planet. Just go to Tesco and look down aisle 7. It's completely filled with bacteria killing products, so complete is their domination.

Even if there is only one single bacterium, within a few minutes, given their requirements such as water, warmth, carbohydrates, phosphorous, oxygen and nitrogen that single unit will split into two. A few minutes later they will split into four, and so on, and so on.

But a stable and completely functioning sediment requires trillions and trillions of these critters, so it takes a month or two to go from one, to trillions and trillions. So really, all you have to do is install the carpet plants, moisten the sediment, find some way to keep the tank warm and humid, and the bacteria will take it from there. You DEFINITELY don't need to waste hard earned cash by throwing it away on "special" bacteria inoculation snake oils (don't even get me started on this rant ) which is akin to selling ice cubes to Eskimos.

Cheers,

 

[NeilW]

but as I understand it, DSM means keeping the substrate *just* wet -and I wonder how people manage who have a big tank with a decent slope in the substrate? Do you only plant the lower areas? Or can you keep something like COlombo Florabase damp all the way without over-saturating the low HC-growing areas?

thanks

m

Check out my journal in progress http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10577&start=60 as this is exactly what I'm up to! I'm also using Florabase.

Spray misting everyday with the tank cling filmed over the top but leaving a gap for fresh air. Because of osmosis the soil stays damp on the uphill part without having to flood the lower part. I used this method on my old tank for a month or so and didn't have a trace of algae from the start !

 

[magpie]

Ceg & Neil - thank you - Neil - it was your journal that started me looking at this, but I wondered if the scale of a nano vs a 300 litre might change things - but if capillary action keeps things moving, then this could be miraculous and fun and wondrous (and I might never get around to filling the tank)

and Ceg... thank you for the point about bacterial snake oil - will avoid at all costs.

while we're on this - I have some 'Tap Safe' from a previous incarnation (10 yrs ago, long gone) which is presumably dead to the world, but wondered what was best to use on the liquid chalk w added nitrates and chloramine that comes out of the tank - I'm rather assuming that we like nitrates because plants can use them, but everything the promises to rid me of chloramines also ditched the nitrates and anything else vicious (more or less) in the water.

Neil - I've read your journal and can't see if you mention what kind of water you're using, or whether you've zapped it with anything first. Ceg - do I need to dispose of chloramines before I introduce the water to the DSM tank?

thanks, both - you're each an inspiration.

m

 

[ceg4048]

...Ceg - do I need to dispose of chloramines before I introduce the water to the DSM tank?

Well it wouldn't hurt, so go ahead if you're really worried about it. I never bother with this stuff but I've never lived in areas where the municipality dumps loads of Chlorine/Chloramine in the supply, so I guess I'm just lucky. I've never seen much of a difference so I decide it's one less thing to buy. Much rather spend my money on beer quite frankly, but if you've got it might as well use it. No point having it sit around for another 10 years...

Cheers,

 

[magpie]

Thanks Ceg

Confusingly, the Local water authority releases details of water content (see below) plus a pdf in far greater detail, but no mention of chloramines. However on their website, is an entire faq about Chloramines and why they're lethal for fish - tho' no mention of how much. SO I'll call them Monday, just for my own interest, to see what they're putting in our water. Terribly tempted to open up the 14th century well that's 5 feet from the back door...



tx

m

Hardness Level Hard
Hardness Clark 17.49
Hardness French 24.99
Hardness German 13.99
Aluminium 11.00
Chloride 28.30 mgCl/l
Chlorine 0.22 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 no./100ml
Fluoride 0.08 mgF/l
Iron 7.00 μgFe/l
Manganese 1.50 μgMn/l
Nitrate 33.08 mgNO3/l
pH 7.58 pH Value
Sodium 25.75 mgNa/l
Plumbing Metals
Copper 0.02 mgCu/l
Lead 0.60 μgPb/l
Nickel 1.16 μgNi/l

 

[ceg4048]

...Terribly tempted to open up the 14th century well that's 5 feet from the back door...

ooh, scary. Might be 14th century monsters trapped down there mate. Better call Harry potter before you do that...

Water looks like it's fairly hard but trace elements are on the very low side. And it's fairly high in Sodium which is not plant friendly at all. The chlorine is low enough not to panic about. Would be interested to hear what they have to say about Chloramine.

Cheers,

 

[NeilW]

it was your journal that started me looking at this, but I wondered if the scale of a nano vs a 300 litre might change things - but if capillary action keeps things moving, then this could be miraculous and fun and wondrous (and I might never get around to filling the tank)

Excellent, both surprised and glad to hear I've been inspirational!

I'd give it a go using the same method even if I was more fortunate and had 300 litres to play with! I think the benefits from it are great, unlimited CO2 from atmosphere, 12 hours lighting, bacterial cycling etc etc.

Neil - I've read your journal and can't see if you mention what kind of water you're using, or whether you've zapped it with anything first.

I either rob a jug full from my other old tank or use pure RO as I can't be bothered to measure out such a small amount of de-chlor to top up the spray gun. Either way I try to avoid using straight tap water as I've yet to research if my local authority makes use of chloramine. Just 'good practice' I guess anyway, can do no harm as Clive says

 

[magpie]

Water looks like it's fairly hard but trace elements are on the very low side. And it's fairly high in Sodium which is not plant friendly at all.

I suspect it's not very human-friendly either and might go some way to explaining why we've both had headaches since we got here... looking into proper filters as we speak...

Neil - you are immensely inspirational and also immensely valuable for the clarity of detail - and the artistic endeavour. Planning a nano - obviously has to be done - but will get good at higher volumes first. And wait until after the week's teaching in August. Leaving it with my partner's daughter might not be kind to either the tank or to her.

thanks, both

m