EasyCarbo vs Flourish Excel

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by Egmel, 3 Jun 2008.

  1. Egmel

    Egmel Member

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Guildford, Surrey, UK
    Other than price is there a substantial difference between these 2 products? Are they the same strength and based on the same ingredients?

    I can't seem to find out anywhere on the web.

    The reason I ask is that I don't want to be drawn in by false economy, EasyCarbo may be cheaper but if it's weaker than Flourish Excel then you'll need more!

    Cheers
    Helen
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Location:
    Chicago, USA
  3. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    Easy Carbo Dosage:
    So, assuming heavily planted 1ml per 25 litres per day (I assume, it doesn't say daily/weekly).

    Excel dosage:

    So, basically 1ml per 40l per day, but 5x that after a water change. So in a week this would be ~ 11ml per 40 litres, and if my maths serves me, Easy carbo would be ~ 11.2ml per 40 litres (scaling up from 1ml per 25 litres daily).

    Easycarbo wins I guess on the price front :) (Someone check my calculations there!)
     
  4. Egmel

    Egmel Member

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Guildford, Surrey, UK
    Ah but Steve, you're making a big assumption there; you're assuming that the final concentrations they recommend are the same. For all we know EasyCarbo could be twice as strong as Flourish Excel but Easy Life may have a different recommended aiming value, maybe they are actually based on completely different chemicals. (though I seem to remember Tom Barr saying that they did contain the same active ingredient... wonder where he got that info from)

    Ceg cheers for that thread, I did stumble across that in my previous search but wondered if any progress had been made on finding out whether the 2 products are as equivalent as they appear.

    I think I'm going to try the EasyCarbo and see how it goes, reports seem to be that it works just as well so my guess is that it's either a similar concentration or stronger.

    What really surprises me about all this is that these are supposedly harmful chemicals yet from what I can gather on the net the EasyCarbo doesn't list its active ingredients or concentrations on the pack. I thought it was law that these things had to be readily available in case someone swallowed it and you took them and the pack to hospital, it's for the doctors to know what they're up against. :?
     
  5. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,301
    Location:
    London
    I use EasyCarbo on the recommendation of Clive and George, and I am very happy with it.
    I dose 5ml per day on my Juwel Rio 125l and all my algea has vanished! Even the glass stays clean all week.

    I haven't used Excel so I can't compare, but I recommend EasyCarbo.
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yeah, they are about the same. Any concentrations differences can't really be quantified in terms of relative effectiveness, so for all intents and purposes consider them interchangeable. Excel is sold in larger quantities though. You can get it in 5 or even 20L volumes. :wideyed:

    I don't really know what the rules are about labeling. I'll have to check some of the products under my sink to see if they are consistent with that.

    Cheers,
     
  7. Egmel

    Egmel Member

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Guildford, Surrey, UK
    *Thankful that she only has a 70l tank so she never has to investigate the price of such ridiculous quantities!* :eek: :wideyed:
     
  8. johnny70

    johnny70 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    Bakewell, Derbsyhire
    I have used both on my 9 tanks, I have found no difference whatsoever between them, seem to work exactly the same :D

    Using easycarbo exclusively now, as I can get it for a more reasonable price than excel

    JOHNNY
     
  9. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

    Messages:
    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    Me too. They work the same IMO.

    Do you mean the ingredients harmful to humans or harmful to fish/inverts (as we know the latter.)

    In which case does labelling of toxic substances apply if not harmful to humans? Most liquid substances that aren't drinks say keep out of reach of children wether they are harmful or not!!. If it were harmful to humans then I think it would have to have guidelines on what action to take if ingested etc which it doesn't so I think its just a generalised 'Don't let your kids touch things they aren't supposed to' statement.

    Smells a bit like Liquid Gold 'Poppers' to me.....erm.....not that I know what that smells like. he, he. Oh the good old days. Headache coming on I think.

    Andy
     
  10. Egmel

    Egmel Member

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Guildford, Surrey, UK
    ok, well we don't know exactly what's in it so we can't really say if it's harmful to humans.

    This thread says that at the concentations that we use it at it can stop trout eggs from hatching, they don't quote a source though.

    Depending on how similar the 'polymerized isomer ... trademarked as polycycloglutaracetal' is to glutaraldehyde itself it could be quite nasty. (interestingly enough, this page lists it as a 'synonym')

    Anything containing more than 1% glutaraldehyde has to list it on an ingredients list (unfortunately I've lost the site where I found this piece of info! I think it was one of the many NHS sites which are full of warnings on how dangerous it is and how it should be phased out if at all possible!)

    I'm guessing that it's at a lower than 1% concentration, someone who understands the ppm calculations could easily work it out, it needs to be between 0.5 and 5 ppm to be effective as an algaecide and the recommended dose is 1ml per 50l, which we triple. So for nice maths sake adding 0.05ml to a litre would have to give the 0.5-5ppm. If the solution were neat then adding 0.05ml to a litre would give a concentration of 50ppm so therefore the solution must be between 1% and 10% for it to be effective as we use it.

    *waits for someone to come and correct her atrocious chemistry!*
     
  11. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    No, the triple dosing scheme is what we do because of impatience not because it's necessary. Both products are harmful to algae at their regular dosages. Like Excel it is some weird polymer of gultaraldehyde and is definitely toxic to humans even if it's lower than 1% (may not kill you right away though :wideyed: )

    Cheers,
     
  12. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

    Messages:
    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    As per Ceg. I dose as per bottle instructions. I think TB has also said somewhere why try and kill the algae straight away and risk anything else when if you follow the bottle dosage it will over time be safer to the inhabitants and the vals/riccia/blyxia and do the same job.

    I prefer the algae to die slowly anyway then the Otos and Plecs eat it all. I tend to dose 3ml every day now which is the reccommended dose and provides a buffer of carbon if the CO2 has a problem.

    Andy
     

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