Edge of the Jungle

alto

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What tank did you use?
just realized I missed this in the journal
 

Andrew T

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I’m thinking of adding some green neon tetras in about a week or so...
Would 15 of them be too many?
I’ve got 2 ottos in there as well.

Total water volume is around 30 gallons and the filter is an Eheim 2217.

Opinions?
 

alto

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15 green neons is likely the minimum I’d add - they are quite a shy fish that does better in larger groups
Depending on actual swimming space available, they maybe more/less suited to this scape

P simulans are mostly wild caught though some tank bred are beginning to appear (except those I’ve seen look somewhat odd)

Unless you have some “cycled filter media” from another tank, I’d not add the green neons until plants are established etc (6-8weeks minimum, especially with wc fish)
 

Andrew T

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15 green neons is likely the minimum I’d add - they are quite a shy fish that does better in larger groups
Depending on actual swimming space available, they maybe more/less suited to this scape

P simulans are mostly wild caught though some tank bred are beginning to appear (except those I’ve seen look somewhat odd)

Unless you have some “cycled filter media” from another tank, I’d not add the green neons until plants are established etc (6-8weeks minimum, especially with wc fish)
Thanks Alto!
The filter is transferred from my cousin’s 55 gallon that he ran for years and just recently took down due to a glass crack.
So it’s as cycled as can be...however, it ran for the past 2+ months in my tank with minimal bioload which gives me a concern that the bacteria colonies might have declined with so little bioload.
The filter is packed with Eheim bio media and lots of Seachem Matrix.
It’s probably wise to let the plants establish first then introduce the fish...I’m ok with adding more as long as I don’t overstock..so 20 maybe?...25 is probably too much...
 

CooKieS

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As Alto said, P.simulans can be very shy until there is some bolder fishes with them. ;)

but they’re beautiful !

20 would be ok for an 60p, they don’t get much bigger than 3cm
 

Andrew T

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As Alto said, P.simulans can be very shy until there is some bolder fishes with them. ;)

but they’re beautiful !

20 would be ok for an 60p, they don’t get much bigger than 3cm
Should I introduce at the same time a specimen or two of smaller and more aggressive Apistos to make the tetras shoal?
 

alto

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ran for the past 2+ months in my tank with minimal bioload which gives me a concern that the bacteria colonies might have declined with so little bioload.
More likely just going “dormant” than dead, they will usually rebound quickly, just do frequent water changes for the first few days to couple weeks (depending ;) ... this is where I like to use Seachem Ammonia Alert, any colour change and I do a water change - though some shops charge excessively for the Alert and then I just do the water changes without Seachem’s assistance)
 

alto

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Should I introduce at the same time a specimen or two of smaller and more aggressive Apistos to make the tetras shoal?
No
As I mentioned above, after the hardscape there’s not a lot of swimming space in this tank (still sufficient water volume re the sump), if you add too much stress to P simulans, they won’t be around for long

Any Apisto species is well able to take over all available space in this tank, if you want to add Apistogramma to this set up, I’d carefully choose the least aggressive
(M ramirezi would likely be my preference in a smaller space)

Mike Wise (Apistogramma.com) mentions just adding male apisto to show tanks but I don’t recall the details - I’d be surprised if there’s sufficient footprint in a 60P for more than one male (but I’m pretty conservative re fish “quality of life”)
 

Andrew T

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Then I’d rather not add any extra stress to the green tetras . I’ll stick to ottos and some shrimp/snail combo besides the tetras to keep this tank as peaceful as possible.
You’re so right...when everything grows in, there will be minimal open space for swimming ...
 

alto

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Given the gorgeous sand area, hard to resist adding someone to sift it :D

I’ve been pining after some nice wild type M ramirezi for awhile now
- lfs have loads of the balloon types, super sized type (some look to be hybrids, others just look to have been hormoned), poorly conformed colour lines, etc
 

Andrew T

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Given the gorgeous sand area, hard to resist adding someone to sift it :D

I’ve been pining after some nice wild type M ramirezi for awhile now
- lfs have loads of the balloon types, super sized type (some look to be hybrids, others just look to have been hormoned), poorly conformed colour lines, etc
Hmm...calling Steve at Aquarium Zen right now to ask about them.:)
 

alto

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I’d give them a miss then, while they easily tolerate lower temps, I’d not add them if intending to maintain tank below 24-25C

Not to dis the video guy, but M ramirezi are NOT a pair bonding dwarf cichlid, they will often breed in a particular “pair” but will also often decide on a (sometimes very messy) divorce ... they are more easily (long term success) kept in larger tanks that allow the addition of a group (beginning with juveniles)
 

Andrew T

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I just noticed some minuscule copepods on the aquarium glass.
Never ever seen them in a freshwater tank. Reminds me of my saltwater tank.
These are harmless right?
Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?
 

Andrew T

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They’re so tiny my iPhone camera will not pick them up. They’re white btw...
Times like these when a macro lens would help a little....:)
I even noticed a white worm floating about in the water column.
 

Tim Harrison

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Grab a magnifying glass and do a pencil sketch
I guess these days it's something of a lost art. Much of my first year at uni was spent in the lab, some of it learning how to look in to a monocular microscope with both eyes open o_O
One eye looking down the microscope, the other on the sketch I was drawing of the wee bestie on the slide. Weird experience at first but great fun once you got the hang of it.

Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?
Entirely possible, I often get ostracods in my tank, I guess they piggyback on plants. They never last long once fish have been introduced; free live food ;)

38451985672_a491306bea_b.jpg
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
These are harmless right?
Yes.
Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?
Yes probably, moss is a great habitat for small creatures and Ostracods (particularly) are almost <"universal in aquatic habitats">.
They’re so tiny my iPhone camera will not pick them up. They’re white btw
You may be able to tell from the way they move.

Ostracods ("Seed Shrimps") swim smoothly, but in little circles, Copepods (Cyclops etc) swim in a series of staccato bursts and Cladocerans ("Water Fleas", Daphnia etc) slowly bounce up and down.

cheers Darrel
 
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