EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS

Discussion in 'Tutorials' started by ceg4048, 23 Mar 2008.

  1. REDSTEVEO

    REDSTEVEO Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Thanks Ed, I think I was only keeping the Microsiemens (electrical conductivity / salt content) at around 300 because I was breeding discus at the time. The higher the salt concentration in the water the less success with the eggs hatching etc.

    Here are some pictures of the Riccia Fluitans in my tank that I took this evening after doing the 50% water change this morning 3 days post EI dosing. It looks pretty promising so far.

    118_1845.jpg

    118_1848.jpg

    118_1850.jpg


    I will keep you guys posted.

    Many thanks for all the words of wisdom!!

    Steve.
     
  2. Arana

    Arana Member

    Messages:
    1,179
    Location:
    London
    wow! the riccia looks fantastic :D
     
  3. REDSTEVEO

    REDSTEVEO Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Thanks very much. I have to give credit to James Flexton who wrote the Article "Many uses of Riccia" I followed his guidelines on cultivating Riccia. I only started out with a small clump about 3 inches across. Following James Flextons guide in his article two weeks later I had enough to cover 6 large pieces of rock. Its only been submerged on the rock for two weeks and already it has more than doubled in its thickness. By the time it comes to trim it I will have loads more ready for cultivating again.

    Thanks James for a great article.

    Steve.
     
  4. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    If the GH is zero then surely the plants are being starved of calcium and magnesium?
     
  5. REDSTEVEO

    REDSTEVEO Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I think that you may be right. I will look at sorting this out very shortly.

    Steve.
     
  6. REDSTEVEO

    REDSTEVEO Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Clive,

    (Aquarium question EI)
    The question that I have is that I never got any MGSO4 from AE so I have bought a tub of Epsom Salts which says it contains nothing but 100% Magnesium Sulphate. Do I still follow the spoonage in terms of quantities for mixing this in preparation for a 40 us gallon tank?

    Also I notice that the instructions on AE'S website regarding the quantities to mix are different than those suggested in your EI article, this is what it says on their site?

    To dose directly into your tank, 1/8 of a teaspoon per 100L as and when needed. If plants begin to show any deficiencies, simply increase the dose.

    For preparing a stock solution add 1 tablespoon of trace mix to 500ml of water. Then add 10ml per 100 litres as required.


    I would be very grateful if you could advise as soon as possible because I am about to mix my next lot of KPN and Trace mix.

    Many thanks,

    Steve.
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes, Epsom Salts=MgSO4

    EI starts from high dosages and works it's way down. Other methods start low and work their way up as shown by the text "...If plants begin to show any deficiencies, simply increase the dose..."

    Personally I find it absurd to dose low and wait for deficiencies. That's a complete waste of time. Why not just ensure that you don't have deficiencies by dosing high and work your way down to see what the lowest dosage is you can get away with? This methods produces less algae.

    Cheers,
     
  8. REDSTEVEO

    REDSTEVEO Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Clive,

    Cheers for the PM and the advice, as alays it is appreciated.

    Regards,

    Steve.
     
  9. Colin

    Colin Member

    Messages:
    28
    edit
     
  10. Colin

    Colin Member

    Messages:
    28
    edit
     
  11. Egmel

    Egmel Member

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Guildford, Surrey, UK
    If you pm a moderator they might be able to move it for you. Otherwise it'll have to stay there.
     
  12. aaronnorth

    aaronnorth Member

    Messages:
    3,955
    Location:
    worksop, nottinghamshire
    You could delete it (edit then delete), just copy the text first!
     
  13. altaaffe

    altaaffe Member

    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Thornhill, Egremont, Cumbria
    Incidentally, I buy my epsom salts from eBay - a 25kg sack (inc P&P) costs the same as 2kg from AE. I use a fair bit keeping African Cichlids in a very soft / low pH water area.
     
  14. 5teady

    5teady Newly Registered

    Messages:
    16
    What products are available to buy to feed my plants to make sure they grow well and stay healthy in my aquarium please?
     
  15. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    Read the very first page, this gives the names of the chemicals (the products) we add to our tanks to ensure optimal health.
     
  16. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes, in case you have trouble with chemical symbols the following is a translation:

    KNO3=Potassium Nitrate
    KH2PO4=Potassium Phosphate
    MgSO4=Magnesium Sulfate
    CSM+B=Trace Element Mix

    You can find these products on this website AE POWDERS

    You also have the option to use commercial products, the most prominent of which is Tropica Plant Nutrition+ (TPN+). This contains a combination of all the chemicals listed above so this is convenient, however it is more expensive. You can see it here: AE TPN+

    Cheers,
     
  17. tanker

    tanker Member

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Malaysia
    i have 2 questions
    1) if plants use NPK and other trace, what is the purpose of MgSO4 since it is only magnesium and sulphate. Also, i do read that some people uses potassium sulphate. What is the purpose of sulphate?

    2) in a tank that is not fully grown yet, plants newly planted less than a month, is it recommended to lower the EI dosage?
     
  18. san-ho-zay

    san-ho-zay Member

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Otley, UK
    The chemicals we are dealing with are compounds - combinations of chemical elements. When they go into solution they split into their positive and negative ions. Take ordinary salt as an example. It's a compound of two elements - Sodium and chlorine make Sodium Chloride (NaCl). Dissolve it in water and you get sodium and chloride ions. Something like Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4) is made of magnesium, sulphur and oxygen and gives you magnesium and sulphate ions. When we add a compound to the tank, we are targeting elements within that compound, perhaps within an ion, that the plants need.

    Magnesium is one of those elements. It's an important trace but you won't find it in AE's trace mix. Same goes for calcium. People with hard water tend to have plenty of these and may not need to worry, depending how the hardness is made up. People with soft water, like me, may need to add them. I use a combination of MgSO4 and GH booster, which contains magnesium, calcium and other sulphates.

    Dosing NPK, we use Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4), which gives us K and P; and Potassium Nitrate (KNO3), which gives us K and N. Some people find this combination gives enough K, but based on the maximum uptake rates it could leave you theoretically short on K. Some people add Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) to add more K without adding more N and P.

    In some ways, the sulphate is just there as a carrier for the Mg or K. But plants do need sulphur too, so it provides that for free.
     
  19. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yes, normally if you are dosing the prescribed KNO3 and KH2PO4 quantities then you automatically are dosing the proper amounts of K. Some prefer not to dose as much KNO3 though, feeling that their fish and food waste generates sufficient NO3. Depending on how much is dosed K2SO4 may be used to make up the K shortfall.

    Sulfate (SO4) is reduced to Sulfur (S) and is used in the synthesis of amino acids which are then used to build proteins. Sulfur is also used in the synthesis of chlorophyll. It's actually used in a lot of processes and it enhances the use of Phosphorous and other elements. As san-ho-zay says, normally tap water has a lot Sulfates and it's very unusual to suffer limiting levels of SO4. Only folks who use RO without remineralizing run the risk of a shortfall.

    Some people lower the dosages on tank using the logic that the plants are using their nutrient reserves accumulated during their emmersed growth and that their submerged uptake is limited and inefficient. By reducing the nutrient concentration in the water column, any algae that does form will have less nutrients available to feed on. This is sound logic but I never reduce my EI levels. If anything I'll increase them. My personal reasoning is that I see no advantage in having the plant deplete it's stored reserves and that higher concentrations of nutrients enhance the ability of the emmersed leaves to uptake nutrients, especially in order to account for any nutrient delivery inefficiencies due to possible poor flow. For me a much sounder principle during tank startup is to reduce your lighting by half. That reduces the nutrient and CO2 uptake demand and therefore reduces the environmental pressures on the plants.

    Cheers,
     
  20. tanker

    tanker Member

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Malaysia
    now that explains all... advice taken thanks ceg and san ho.
    the difference of this forum from others that i like is the impressive knowledge that you the members have especially ceg and the willingness to explain all that in such detail. :D
     

Share This Page

Facebook Page
Twitter Page
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice