EI Rest Day

[Geraint Anderson]

It's the day off important in the EI schedule? I'm not very consistent with water changes and usually i skip a day of fertiliser with the intention of doing a water changes the next but something comes up and i don't actually do a change until a few days later. That means i end up not dosing for a few days. Do i really need a rest day as part of EI or can i dose right up to the water changes day?

Thanks,

 

[Zeus.]

It's the day off important in the EI schedule?

If your dosing manually its a day off, if your dosing in slight excess then its not an issue. However IMO little an often also has its benefits as system should be more stable esp if dosing with ammonium compounds I dose my weekly EI dose over 7 days as I have auto dosers, then if WC is delayed a day or few no big deal IMO

 

[Geraint Anderson]

Thanks for your reply. Is "dosing manually" exactly matching the fertilisers used to the amount added so everything is used up? I'm trying to dose to excess but have significantly reduced the recommended dose and the plants don't look deficient? When you delay the water change by a few days do you continue dosing on the days beyond the original water change, or do you stop? I have been dosing the same amount daily up to 2 days before the planned water change day which is between 1 and 2 weeks.

 

[Andy Pierce]

Nothing is exact... that's why it's called 'Estimative'... (true fact)

 

[Flukeworld]

Here is an opinion using my short experience and my experienced analytical skills:

• EI is about dosing with excess, this is fact,
• Having a stable ecosystem means persistence and no stress,

bare with me,

• Most of the time the rest day is just before the water change but at the fertilization peak. In most cases its Saturday after dosing 3 times micro and macro so there should be plenty of excess.

If you miss a day, you have two possibilities for which I still don't have a correct answer:

1. Or plants would suffer, if your EI dosing cant cover that day (you haven't built up a good nutrients buffer in the water). But here you would see it observing your plants.
2. Or plants usually buffer them selves, they are healthy, have no deficiencies, so in the end they are fine to have a wave in the river which lacks nutrients they are used to consume.

If you miss more days in a row - may be someone could share how long plants could live trough as I strongly believe (still I have no idea if 1 or 2 is "correct") that option 2 seems logical - if you exclude from the equation the permanent resources in the nature as light and may be CO2. May be also drastic water parameters changes are harmful ( and yes they are), but a day without a byte when you have been fed up for days could not be a problem.

 

[ceg4048]

It's the day off important in the EI schedule? I'm not very consistent with water changes and usually i skip a day of fertiliser with the intention of doing a water changes the next but something comes up and i don't actually do a change until a few days later. That means i end up not dosing for a few days. Do i really need a rest day as part of EI or can i dose right up to the water changes day?

Thanks,

Hello Geraint,
As Zeus mentions it really doesn't matter one way or the other. The six days that you dose pushes the concentration level high enough to satisfy the plants needs. EI is about economics. I think people gloss over this point. AS you mention, if you'll do a water change the next day, why waste nutrients? Rest and carry on.

Thanks for your reply. Is "dosing manually" exactly matching the fertilisers used to the amount added so everything is used up? I'm trying to dose to excess but have significantly reduced the recommended dose and the plants don't look deficient? When you delay the water change by a few days do you continue dosing on the days beyond the original water change, or do you stop? I have been dosing the same amount daily up to 2 days before the planned water change day which is between 1 and 2 weeks.

More and more I'm finding it annoying when folks kick this "excess" word around as if it was a ball in a football match.

The point of EI is NOT simply to dose to excess. The correct syntax is "to provide unlimited nutrient levels".
For years people were petrified of nutrients and their tanks suffered as a result due to deficiency. The cure was to provide enough nutrition so that under the worst environmental conditions the plants would not deplete the nutrient level.
That's like having enough money in the bank so that you always have enough when you need it. Does that mean you have excess money in the bank? That would be an absurd way looking at your monetary policy correct? Well I consider that word equally absurd when applied to EI. You want to never run out of nutrients. Donald Trump [He Who Shall Not Be Named] is excess. EI is not.

If you delay the water change you have a buffer based on the concentration level. You can leave it for a few days, but every tank is different. When I broke down my 700l tank some time ago and weighed the plants as I was pulling them out. The total weight approached 30 kg. including leaves, stems and roots. How much nutrition can that much plant mass devour under intense light over two or three days? The correct answer is: "A hell of a lot." Under my particular conditions I did not have the luxury of skipping 2-3 days. The first nutrient to become exhausted was PO4. A different tank with a lighter plant mass may be okay for 2-3 days. Learn how your tank behaves. EI was not developed for clones. Every tank is a little different.

Cheers,

 

[Zeus.]

Here is an opinion using my short experience and my experienced analytical skills:

• EI is about dosing with excess, this is fact,
• Having a stable ecosystem means persistence and no stress,

bare with me,

• Most of the time the rest day is just before the water change but at the fertilization peak. In most cases its Saturday after dosing 3 times micro and macro so there should be plenty of excess.

If you miss a day, you have two possibilities for which I still don't have a correct answer:

1. Or plants would suffer, if your EI dosing cant cover that day (you haven't built up a good nutrients buffer in the water). But here you would see it observing your plants.
2. Or plants usually buffer them selves, they are healthy, have no deficiencies, so in the end they are fine to have a wave in the river which lacks nutrients they are used to consume.

If you miss more days in a row - may be someone could share how long plants could live trough as I strongly believe (still I have no idea if 1 or 2 is "correct") that option 2 seems logical - if you exclude from the equation the permanent resources in the nature as light and may be CO2. May be also drastic water parameters changes are harmful ( and yes they are), but a day without a byte when you have been fed up for days could not be a problem.

I have changed my EI dosing regime to what I think is a more automated solution, with automation making dosing very easy, I thought why dose just 5 or 6 times a week, when I can dose multiple times a week, so dosing very little very often. The net I dose over a week is the same I just dose a lot more often.

For my 50L I use an AIO, so it gets dosed nearly a hundred times a week, a drop or two every 12 mins
For my 500l which I still use macros and Micros I dose Macros wait two hours then dose Micros two hours later dose Macros then.......
Both tanks get the same weekly dose as before just less peaks in nutrient concentrations, is it doing any harm- IMO no, is it doing any good - dunno

But if a do miss a day or 'three' before doing a WC the tank is still getting a little ferts every few hours or minutes. every day the tanks get the same amount of ferts

Obviously not every auto doser will be able to handle this approach, but since I use a PLC (programmable logic controller) no such limits exist, just needed a little coding

 

[Psfor]

Is it important to alternate the macro / micro or can you dose both on the same day? I use TNC complete at the moment and and thinking about switching to using the EI starter kit. Based on the material I've read on this site it talks about alternating each day, but I was thinking about dosing a consistent amount each day (the weekly total divided by 7) and adding both macro and micro before the lights came on. Unless there is a strong reaction between the chemical components therefore reducing the available nutrients is this assumption wrong? The all in one solutions have macro and micro mixed and they still work.

 

[Zeus.]

Is it important to alternate the macro / micro or can you dose both on the same day?

Classically -Yes, if dosing at EI levels, as the PO4 can interact with one off the macro salts (forget which one ATM). Although AIO (All In One) fertilizers still work, it may be concentration related. But I read one of @ceg4048 post who pointed out that after two hours the plants have had their fill of nutrients, so I thought 'if' you can dose Macros and Micros every two hours alternating why not ! So I did the maths adjusted the dose and frequency and my plants get Macros and Macros every two hours alternating daily every day off the week in on 500l. plants don't seem to have suffered from it. But most auto dosers don't have the ability to have such a dosing regime

 

[Sammy Islam]

Classically -Yes, if dosing at EI levels, as the PO4 can interact with one off the macro salts (forget which one ATM). Although AIO (All In One) fertilizers still work, it may be concentration related. But I read one of @ceg4048 post who pointed out that after two hours the plants have had their fill of nutrients, so I thought 'if' you can dose Macros and Micros every two hours alternating why not ! So I did the maths adjusted the dose and frequency and my plants get Macros and Macros every two hours alternating daily every day off the week in on 500l. plants don't seem to have suffered from it. But most auto dosers don't have the ability to have such a dosing regime

I've been dosing micro and macro the same day couple hours apart for like 3 months now and everythings going well.

My thinking is what's the difference between dosing both on the same day and dosing an AIO fert? Only thing i can think of is the AIO has acids to lower the PH to keep everything in solution in the bottle, but once it's in the tank it's "every man for himself"?.

I think one of my main problems is PO4 because my PH doesn't drop below 7, and @dw1305 always states something along the lines of "phosphate is highly reactive and not very soluable in highly oxygenated alkaline water", so in my eyes dosing daily ensures i have all the nutrients available to some degree.

 

[Psfor]

That’s great thank you. Perhaps dosing morning and afternoon would help. I’ve a high energy and low energy set up so I could try with just one of the tanks.


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