Faulty solenoid?

Discussion in 'CO2Art' started by Jim.., 30 Oct 2016.

  1. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Morning All

    Bought a duel stage regulator for use with a fire extinguisher from Co2Art. Just wanted to confirm it's not user error before contacting the supplier..

    Set up as per instruction on Co2 supermarket, set bubble counter to 1 per second, left running for a few minutes. When I unplugged the solenoid bubbles continued for over an hour,

    Removed bazooka atomizer and air line, repeated test. Bubbles would only stop if I unscewed the bubble counter.

    Removed BC, repeated test. Solenoid would only stop Co2 if the pressure was high, needle valve open. Solenoid worked fine though, I guess it needs the pressure to work?

    Problems occur when I add the Bubble Counter / Atomizer, any ideas?

    Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance :thumbup:
     
  2. zozo

    zozo Member

    Messages:
    5,691
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Hi,
    Try it with tubing only, from solenoid to a bucket of water.. So there is no pressure buildup in the tubing. If the solenoid closes the bubles should stop about immediately.. Than you will know the solenoid works propperly.

    It might be the type of tubing and lenght of it, you are using, the bubblecounter and atomizer/diffuser gives a counter pressure and so the pressure will build up in the tubing. When the solenoid closes the tubes are still under pressure and are slowly releasing this via the atomizer.. So it is quite normal that the bubbling goes one for some time when solenoid is closed. Type of atomizer and type of tubing, ammount of volume in this tubing and room temperatur per setup can be different, with this the time it keeps bubbling can vary as well. :)

    Some atomizers need a rather high work pressure, i've red some need up to 3 bar.. If this is the case your tubing still contains 3 bar of co2 when it closes.. This will still slowely release through the ceramic from the atomizer into the water till it is 0 bar again..
     
    Greenfinger2 likes this.
  3. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Hi zozo

    Thank you for your advice. Tried just using the airline into a bucket, same result as above. The needle valve needed to be open quite a bit for the solenoid to work, but I guess this normal?

    I guess I didn't leave it long enough for the build up to dissipate. I'm using 1.5 metres of Co2 tubing and about 40 psi (2.75 bar). I'll do a proper test and and give it a bit more time :thumbup:

    Edit.. I was a bit unclear in my 1st post, but I was still getting bubbles in the bubble counter after an hour, not just the atomizer. Testing at the moment, fingers crossed
     
    Last edited: 30 Oct 2016
  4. zozo

    zozo Member

    Messages:
    5,691
    Location:
    Netherlands
    It could be that the counter pressure from the regulator is causing the solenoid to take some time to close.. Tho i can not imagine this to be normal, looking at their complete setups offered the solenoid is in front of the needle valve. So then i guess the max presure the valve can handle should be at least as high as the max output presure of the regulator.

    Anyway looking at my own setup, where i did combine my own bought equipment i did put the solenoid behind the needle valve and it closes instantly..
    Still i have the same it keeps bubbling a short time to release all pressure buildup in the tubing, never stopwatched it but it does bubble on for some time. That's all i can say..
     
  5. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    It's been unplugged for 2 hours now and still producing bubbles in the counter. Doesn't seem right to me, hmm

    When yours continues to bubble are we talking hours or minutes, approximately?
     
  6. KipperSarnie

    KipperSarnie Member

    Messages:
    428
    Location:
    Aldington Kent
    Might be worth a try to slacken off the screw that holds the magnet to the valve as well as the coupling that holds the valve to the stem as there might be distortion holding the valve open.
    (The magnet is strong enough to over come it but the return spring is not strong enough to shut it)

    Just thought!... Sticking Valve..... Give it a tap to see if it closes when unplugged.
     
  7. zozo

    zozo Member

    Messages:
    5,691
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I remeber when i used an in tank diffuser it did for quite some time =/- half an hour if i remember corectly and slowly getting less, never realy timed it, but long enough to make me check it and find out all is still OK. I can imagine with a very dense diffuser in an atomizer this taking much longer to release the pressure build up in the whole system..

    Anyway if you have it setup in this order Regulator/solenoid/needle valve and you fully open the needle valve and shut off the solenoid it schould close immediately, if it doesn't the solenoid is faulty.

    If it doesn't stop only with the needle valve set to the desired bubble count, then there still is pressure build up between regulater and needle valve which slowly releasing.. Tho 2 hours seems to be i bit much for that.. But you didn't show what setup you are using, my only reference is looking at the co2 art website and see what they offer.

    As far as my technical understanding goes i see no reason why a partialy closed needle valve could prevent the solenoid from closing other than the working pressure of the solenoid is less than the pressure set to the regulator. The max pressure for the solenoid should be writen on it, so that would be an easy check. So this can only happen if a wrong solenoid is mounted and only fully closes slowly when pressure is releasing to equal the solenoids working pressure.

    But why not move this topic to the Co2art section of this forum, they are sponsor and always willing to reply and assist and or solve any issues.. :)
     
  8. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Thanks I'll give it try.

    It's odd, I removed the bubble counter and the flow stops. Scewed it back, plug in the solenoid and the flow starts. Unplug, flow continues. Remove counter, flow stops. Solenoid is clicking on/off. :banghead:
     
  9. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Sorry, link for equipment https://www.co2art.co.uk/collection...products/advance-complete-aquarium-co2-system using the bazooka atomizer.

    The solenoid works fine with nothing attached, although the needle valve has to be open enough for it to work. The problem occurs when the bubble counter is fitted.

    I will ask a mod to move, thanks again for your help :thumbup:

     
  10. tim

    tim Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,844
    Location:
    Middlesex.
    Silly question, is the bubble counter connected the right way round ? They have a built in check valve so if not maybe stopping gas flow.
     
  11. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    The counter can only be fitted one way but the check valve could be faulty?

    Have done some more testing.. without anything attached the solenoid would only operate at a higher pressure, when using a lower pressure the valve has to be flicked to operate. As KipperSarnie said above, sticking valve!

    With the bubble counter fitted, regardless of the pressure, I still have to remove it to stop the flow of Co2.

     
  12. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Hello everyone,

    For future references, if anyone is having problems with solenoid not closing completely, please follow below steps :

    - Disconnect regulator from the cylinder,
    - release all gas from regulator (both gauges on 0)
    - remove electric coil from solenoid (black parts, where cable is connected)
    - unscrew two small screws from the bottom of solenoid
    - inside you will find spring, and plunger, please make sure that top rubber part and hole inside solenoid body is clean and free from debris
    - stretch spring so it will be around 0.5cm longer (sometimes springs loose tension)
    - assemble everything back together
    - make sure all connections are tight as originally

    Test it again. In most cases those steps fix problems with solenoid not closing completely.
    If you still have problems with it, contact our support team and we will arrange replacement parts ASAP.

    Please keep us updated.

    Thanks!
     
    rebel likes this.
  13. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Thank you for your reply, I'll try this when I get home :thumbup:
     
  14. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Thank you! Keep us posted.
     
  15. Jim..

    Jim.. Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    That solved it, thank you :)
     
    rebel likes this.

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