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Filter cycling?

Z

Zoe

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5 Aug 2015
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I've just ordered my tank - Fluval Spec V, I'm intending to wait until mid this month - next month to get the substrate and plants, is it possible to get my filter cycling in the mean time?

What is the best method? (Please feel free to point me at existing threads if they're out there)
 
Set it all up once you have everything you need if you add the substrate after cycling you will just make a mess and ruin the tanks equilibrium.

Substrate rocks wood and plants first, and then cycle the tank.

i know you are using tropica aqua soil, i don't know if it gives off ammonia like ADA soil, but if it does, then you can use that to cycle your filter media, it takes a few weeks, if tropica soil doesn't release ammonia you can just buy some pure ammonia to cycle the tank, it would be good to go and read a few articles on the nitrogen cycle of aquariums, and how ammonia gets converted to nitrite and nitrate, you will understand a bit more then.
 
fozziebear said:
Set it all up once you have everything you need if you add the substrate after cycling you will just make a mess and ruin the tanks equilibrium.

Substrate rocks wood and plants first, and then cycle the tank.

i know you are using tropica aqua soil, i don't know if it gives off ammonia like ADA soil, but if it does, then you can use that to cycle your filter media, it takes a few weeks, if tropica soil doesn't release ammonia you can just buy some pure ammonia to cycle the tank, it would be good to go and read a few articles on the nitrogen cycle of aquariums, and how ammonia gets converted to nitrite and nitrate, you will understand a bit more then.
Click to expand...
I don't recall seeing anywhere that it releases ammonia, I have read up on this but there's a lot of contradicting opinions.
 
when i cycled my 60l tank 2 years ago i used kleen off household ammonia and testing kits. It does take time weeks or more than a month. If you can get cycled media from a fish store then that would work wonders but if you cannot then just use the ammonia and some tests kits. I provided some link to follow. kleen off Ammonia has 10% strength .

1) First you need to know how many litres of water are in your tank. This is easy – measure the height, width and length in centimetres and multiply those figures together and then divide by 1000 (or use the calculator on the right). For example a tank measuring 100cm by 50cm by 30cm would hold 150 litres. If you have a lot of substrate and décor in your tank you need to take 10-20% off your calculated figure to allow for this.
2) Use the ammonia calculator at the bottom of the page to work out the amount of ammonia in millilitres (ml) to introduce and add it to the tank.
3) The following day use the ammonia test kit to measure the ammonia in the tank.If it’s below 3ppm (parts per million) use the ammonia calculator below to calculate how much ammonia to add to bring the level back to 3ppm. It may take several days before you see a significant drop.
4) Repeat step 3 every day. This process is to start the cycle off (the initial bacterial growth) and keep the bacteria alive by feeding them ammonia at the correct concentrations in the tank water.
5) After about a week you can start to test for nitrite in the water. Ammonia is converted to Nitrite in the first part of the cycle so when you can detect it, it means the cycle has started.
6) Continue testing for ammonia every day. Whenever it drops below 3ppm add enough ammonia to bring the level back up to 3ppm using the calculator to obtain the correct dose. Also test for nitrite every other day. You should see nitrite rise and then start falling after a few weeks.
7) Start testing for Nitrate after a few weeks. Nitrate is the last part of the process where the bacteria convert the nitrite to nitrate. When the test kit starts showing a fall in the nitrites you should see a rise in the nitrates.

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kleen-Of...hash=item35c46e6184:m:md6R6rBSZaNmueoCkf9cSaA
http://spec-tanks.com/how-to-fishless-cycle-a-new-aquarium/
 
mow said said:
when i cycled my 60l tank 2 years ago i used kleen off household ammonia and testing kits. It does take time weeks or more than a month. If you can get cycled media from a fish store then that would work wonders but if you cannot then just use the ammonia and some tests kits. I provided some link to follow. kleen off Ammonia has 10% strength .

1) First you need to know how many litres of water are in your tank. This is easy – measure the height, width and length in centimetres and multiply those figures together and then divide by 1000 (or use the calculator on the right). For example a tank measuring 100cm by 50cm by 30cm would hold 150 litres. If you have a lot of substrate and décor in your tank you need to take 10-20% off your calculated figure to allow for this.
2) Use the ammonia calculator at the bottom of the page to work out the amount of ammonia in millilitres (ml) to introduce and add it to the tank.
3) The following day use the ammonia test kit to measure the ammonia in the tank.If it’s below 3ppm (parts per million) use the ammonia calculator below to calculate how much ammonia to add to bring the level back to 3ppm. It may take several days before you see a significant drop.
4) Repeat step 3 every day. This process is to start the cycle off (the initial bacterial growth) and keep the bacteria alive by feeding them ammonia at the correct concentrations in the tank water.
5) After about a week you can start to test for nitrite in the water. Ammonia is converted to Nitrite in the first part of the cycle so when you can detect it, it means the cycle has started.
6) Continue testing for ammonia every day. Whenever it drops below 3ppm add enough ammonia to bring the level back up to 3ppm using the calculator to obtain the correct dose. Also test for nitrite every other day. You should see nitrite rise and then start falling after a few weeks.
7) Start testing for Nitrate after a few weeks. Nitrate is the last part of the process where the bacteria convert the nitrite to nitrate. When the test kit starts showing a fall in the nitrites you should see a rise in the nitrates.

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kleen-Of...hash=item35c46e6184:m:md6R6rBSZaNmueoCkf9cSaA
http://spec-tanks.com/how-to-fishless-cycle-a-new-aquarium/
Click to expand...

Thank you, that was really, really helpful!
 
Hi all,
You can try cycling the filter in a bare tank with ammonia, it can work and for people who keep bare tanks they don't have any alternative, but you're honestly better off planting the tank up and then letting the plants grow in.

Cycling is a contentious issue, but all the recent research points to the traditional linear view of cycling being incorrect, mainly because the organisms that were thought to be the major nitrifying organisms in aquarium filters aren't actually present. Have a look at <"cycling without plants"> & <"Beginner planted ....">.

cheers Darrel
 
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I would not bother trying to get you filter established before you set up your tank, like others have said you can just plant up your tank and start your filter the same day. There is no need to add ammonia.
As long as you don’t intend to add any livestock & carry out regular water changes, then the plants will do the rest & the filter will mature over a few weeks.
 
Ok, so the choices are planted with no ammonia added or bare with ammonia added? I may just go for planted and see how we go, I'm not fussed about waiting, I was expecting to wait a good few months to get the filter ready!

Sadly my tank was supposed to be in today but I'm doubtful it'll get to the store, not that I can get to the store with this snow!!
 
you can still ammonia cycle the tank with plants and hardscape in, you will just have to go a lot lower than 3ppm, probably around 1ppm which is what the ADA aquasoil releases each day with 50% daily water changes.

I would be worried about just setting the tank up and letting the filter go for a few weeks without ammonia, it might not be fully cycled, but you could do this and add a light fish load at first (1/4th to 1/5th of your total stocking) whilst carrying out daily water changes of 25-50% for the first week or 2 depending on ammonia and nitrite test results.

Do you have any friends with mature filter media? that would be the absolute best way to set up a tank, nick some of their ceramic media or bio balls.
 
Hi all,
Snowy here as well.
Zoe said:
Ok, so the choices are planted with no ammonia added or bare with ammonia added?
Click to expand...
Yes pretty much.
fozziebear said:
I would be worried about just setting the tank up and letting the filter go for a few weeks without ammonia, it might not be fully cycled, but you could do this and add a light fish load at first (1/4th to 1/5th of your total stocking) whilst carrying out daily water changes of 25-50% for the first week or 2 depending on ammonia and nitrite test results.
Click to expand...
I think adding the fish a few at time is always a good idea.

You honestly don't need the ammonia, the two problems are that the microbial assemblages you get with high ammonia loading aren't the same as the ones you get in established biofilters, and that measuring monovalent ions is more problematic than most people imagine.

Most of the discussion of cycling on forums etc. vastly underestimates the contribution of plants to biological filtration and is based around ammonia levels and water testing.

We are interested in ammonia (NH3) and nitrite (NO2) because they are toxic to fish and shrimps, but in terms of the biological filtration processes the availability of oxygen is much more important.

Have a look at <"Japanese Bonsai....."> and <"Do I need to cycle...."> & links.

cheers Darrel
 
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fozziebear said:
you can still ammonia cycle the tank with plants and hardscape in, you will just have to go a lot lower than 3ppm, probably around 1ppm which is what the ADA aquasoil releases each day with 50% daily water changes.

I would be worried about just setting the tank up and letting the filter go for a few weeks without ammonia, it might not be fully cycled, but you could do this and add a light fish load at first (1/4th to 1/5th of your total stocking) whilst carrying out daily water changes of 25-50% for the first week or 2 depending on ammonia and nitrite test results.

Do you have any friends with mature filter media? that would be the absolute best way to set up a tank, nick some of their ceramic media or bio balls.
Click to expand...
No one I know has a tank!
 
So you have 2 options.. a light ammonia cycle with plants, which is tricky to get the right PPM, or set up the whole tank with plants and everything else leave it 2 weeks, and then add fish in small amounts with gaps inbetween for the filter to build up the appropriate bacteria, start with the cheapest fish first as the first fish added will be at the highest risk of mortality.
 
Hi all,
fozziebear said:
or set up the whole tank with plants and everything else leave it 2 weeks
Click to expand...
I'd leave it longer, and make sure you have some floating plants, they aren't CO2 limited, so can make use of all the available nutrients in the water column. I like <"Amazon Frogbit">, but there are other options. Have a look at <"Questions about new tank">.

Diana Walstad talks a lot about the <"aerial advantage"> in <"her book">, if you don't have a copy it is well worth getting one.
fozziebear said:
read for you on the cycling in a planted tank issues
Click to expand...
We have quite a few cycling threads.

cheers Darrel
 
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dw1305 said:
Hi all,I'd leave it longer, and make sure you have some floating plants, they aren't CO2 limited, so can make use of all the available nutrients in the water column. I like <"Amazon Frogbit">, but there are other options. Have a look at <"Questions about new tank">.

Diana Walstad talks a lot about the <"aerial advantage"> in <"her book">, if you don't have a copy it is well worth getting one.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
The problem with doing it for longer than 2 weeks and not adding fish if you are not adding ammonia, is that the plants and filter bacteria will exhaust their resources and you get a "dip" before you add fish, which can lead to the filter bacteria dieing off due to a lack of "food" for want of a better term.

So at 2 weeks, you are almost at the perfect point to add some urea producing fish, because the tank is naturally exhausting its resources to build up bacteria inside the filter already.

Effectively we are talking about a "fish in" cycle, if you are not adding any extra ammonia.

i always cycled quite short compared to some, i know some guys that cycle for a month.
 
I cant understand why anyone would add fish expecting them to die!"!!!!!!!!!"!"!"!"!"!"!
I thought we liked fish?
And why on this earth would you want to deliberately add a toxic substance when there is no need to?
Darrel has explained that there is no need to add ammonia.
 
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