Filtration Ideas

Discussion in 'Filters, Filtration and Pumps' started by Vase, 15 Feb 2008.

  1. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Hey,

    My main tank has been sitting unused for god knows how long now but I'm going to set it up again and I'm currently planning every tiny detail.

    The tank holds 720 litres (approx 164 gallons)

    I already have an Eheim 2128 Thermofilter but I want to get an Eheim 2080 as well. Flow simply wasn't enough before. Its going to house Discus again. I plan to fix my external CO2 diffuser (Aqua Medic) to the return of the 2128 and use its heater also. I'd also like to use Hydor external heaters and a UV, that I already have.

    If anyone can suggest some ideas and suggestions on how to configure the plumbing that would be ace.
    I'm also looking for filter media ideas. I'd like to make the most of using the two filters and ideally use different media in each.

    Cheers
    ;)
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,951
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    Don't be alarmed, but Ideally, in order to deliver nutrients and CO2 evenly to the plants you'd want to turn over 3 or more times the tank volume per hour, which means about 480 gallons per hour. :wideyed: In a perfect world you could just rely on the filter ratings however, in reality, filters only deliver about 50% of their claimed rating. So now you really are looking at just under 1000 gallons per hour worth of filter ratings. The Eheim solution is expensive. I use a couple of their 2080's. I think a better solution might be a couple of the Fluval FX5. Much better bang per buck.

    Of course it can also depend on what type of plants you intend on keeping. If you're going to have mostly ferns and mosses or other very hardy undemanding plants you can get away with lower flow, but if you want good growth from more delicate or demanding species you'll want the stronger flow. In large tanks CO2 distribution is a major problem.

    Another possible solution if you don't want to use stronger filtration is to supplement the flow by using powerheads at strategic locations to churn the water more but the benefit of using bigger filters is that you get to use a larger volume of bio-media which helps against algae. If you are going to have discus you'll have higher levels of organic waste so higher filtration is a better idea.

    Cheers,
     
  3. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    lol...it'd be like Class 6 rapids :wideyed:

    The main problem I'm facing is that anything bigger than a 2128 wont fit in the cupboards of my tanks cabinet. There are two cupboards. The planned 2080 was going to be hidden at the far side of the tank as far from view as possible as that wont fit in the cupboards. I checked out the fluvals but I wasnt as keen on their design and they wouldnt fit in the cupboards either :rolleyes:

    I'm basically trying to 'design' the set up around the Discus and if anything else benefits from that design, such as the plants, then thats a bonus.

    The other problem I'm having is where to plumb my Co2 diffuser, heaters and UV. Obviously they need certain flow levels and will affect the flow rates of anything powering them.

    Edit:
    The only other idea would be to have a new cabinet made with taller cupboards but I'm not sure £300 would be justified. Or would it?
     
  4. Bingy_bong

    Bingy_bong Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Colne, Lancashire
    Hi Vase, my current set up is a 300L Juwel run by a 2080. I thought that it would be ample to use on this size of tank, but no. After bieng used for 12 months, all i can grow is cynobacteria, BGA Algae due to the filter bieng too small. Despite rigorous cleaning and removal it keeps coming back.
    Because of this i have just purchased a tetra EX1200 filter to run alongside this to increase flow rates and to try and elieviate the algae problem.
    Many manufacturers quote good flowrates through filters, but in reality it is often far less (as i have found out). Added to the fact that you want to put an inline heater and a co2 reactor on the pump to decrease flow further.
    Im no expert, my advise would be to get another filter on your setup. You can always throttle back the pump, but if its on maximum it cant go higher.
    Im sure the guys on here will be able to help more.

    hope to see some pictures once its all set up and running, or even a journal. :rolleyes: ;)
     
  5. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Well it looks like I might be investing in a new cabinet. I was originally trying to find an original Effect Line cabinet but there are none in the country. After some investigating it appeared that any damaged parts of the stand could be removed and replaced but after all that I'd still be left with small cupboards.

    I spoke to Aquariums Ltd and they can sort me out with what I need without breaking the bank, meaning space for filtration. The only limit at the moment is money :rolleyes:

    But I'm in no hurry so I'm going to get equipment etc as and when I have the readies :p
    I'm wondering if a 2080 at each end would work, powering a Hydor heater each and then my 2128 in the middle powering the diffuser and UV.

    The other alternative is to use the Tetratec EX1200's instead of the Eheims. That would save me a fortune. I have one of those filters on my 44 gallon and it works a treat.

    Thanks for your comments so far guys ;)
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,951
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi vase,
    As bingy_bong indicates it's worth the effort to maximize your filtration. A large tank swallows filter output flow of the average filter. I use two of the 2080 thermofilters on my 600L and that just about does it. Although I have to admit I'm an Eheim fanboy if I had to do it all over again I might just as easily have used two FX5's because I think the output is higher and they are much less expensive. I checked on various websites and I couldn't find any complaints about them other than that their build quality seemed more flimsy than the Eheim's. In the end though, what is a filter except a bucket with a pump attached?

    If you then add the 2128 then you'd be fine. The other thing to think about is to keep the tubing at 16mm ID. I made the mistake of getting CO2 reactors that have 12mm plumbing so that chokes my flow a bit. Good luck, whichever way you decide!

    Cheers,
     
  7. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Thanks mate ;)

    The 2128 that I have already has a 12mm return anyway so will fit nicely with the Aqua Medic diffuser I have (although I'm not convinced about that either but thats for another thread!) so shouldnt restrict the flow too much.

    I've checked and the Hydor inline heaters (300w) will fit 16mm tubing so that shouldnt affect the flow through an Eheim (2080) too much. I'll be able to put one heater on the return of each filter and with the 2128 thermo that should heat the tank nicely. I used to get cold spots before.

    I know the fluvals have a greater flow rate but my heart/instinct or whatever you want to call it is leaning towards the Eheims. I know they are more pricey and dont have the flow of the Fluvals but I prefer their design and I trust them a bit more.

    Either way can anyone suggest some media configurations please? I'd like to use the two 'main' filters for biological filtration if possible as I dont want any ammonia or nitrite at all. I can use the 2128 for more specialised media like Purigen for example.

    Cheers again
    ;)
     
  8. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Really? My 2128 is 16mm pipe throughout! It's the 16/12 hose where 12 is the internal diameter. Have they changed to this in recent models? Mine's about a year old now.

    Or do you mean that you have reduced the pipe size on the outlet? In which case then you can easily and cheaply up the flow rate by running the 16mm pipe all the way into the tank.
     
  9. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Yeah, my bad...its 16mm :oops:

    I was looking at the shepherds crook when I glanced at the tubing earlier.
     
  10. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,951
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    OK, that's cool. Always good to know what options are out there.8)

    You can use the Eheim media set that's made for those filters. It has those cylinders that go at the bottom and which do the mechanical filtration and then it has the two bags of the biomedia mini balls. They work fine. See the bottom of this webpage http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/catalo ... -2080-.asp

    I'm pretty sure you can also use the Fluval biomedia if the £55 for the Eheim media set is too difficult to swallow.:arghh:

    Cheers,
     
  11. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Nah that's awesome mate, your help is very much appreciated.

    I know what you're saying about the media pricetag. I dont mind so much forking out a bit more for the filters (after all they come in big boxes and I love opening big boxes!) but if I can save some dollar on the media I'll be a happy bunny.

    Owning the 2080's yourself I dont suppose you know roughly what each basket holds? I have an old Fluval 303 that I can nick some media out of but I'm trying to keep my options open.

    I hope the wife doesn't mind doing overtime as she's paying :p
     
  12. Bingy_bong

    Bingy_bong Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Colne, Lancashire
    Funnily enough, ive just purchased a media set for my 2080
    In the box there is:-
    2 bags of ehfimech
    4 bags of substrat pro
    1 blue sponge filter
    1 white floss pad

    I have worked it out and i reckon that each bag of media is equivilet to 1 litre.
    The bottom basket is filled with the ehfimech and the sponge filter
    The next basket is filled with some of the substrat pro
    thetop basket is filled wth the remaining substrat pro and topped off with the floss pad

    Hope this helps
     
  13. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,951
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Yep, 3 baskets in total, each basket holds 4 liters. ;)

    Cheers,
     
  14. Vase

    Vase Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Northants
    Awesome, thanks guys ;)
     

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