Fish die, videos attached HELP please!

Basviola

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3 Apr 2019
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116
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Denmark
Hi, have lost guppies in this aquarium for a long time. (4-6 months)

Symptoms
They "jump" / tilt sideways, stand still in the water surface .... and then for periods they swim around like nothing is wrong.
Some of the fish's poop turn into a long thin thread, as seen in the last video, where the fish died and a few days later.
I have read a lot about sick fish in terms of the symptoms they show. I think these are some kind of parasites, but exactly what kind and how to treat it I dont know.

If it is parasites or other disease, I probably introduced it to the aquarium when I caught daphnia in nature during this summer ... :(

Aquarium [/ b]
128 liters
HMF in the corner, the volume of the mushroom is approx. 2 liters.
Bottom layer: Spagnum, red clay and rexoline. Topped with gravel.
Water change, approx. 40-50% pr. week

Videos of the fish, or the ones left! [/ b]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Md-c6ad-2bsKy6L37SwHI7IigpTUJW8w
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MDpLgtG3emjlqAvfRgV6GhGz3KyzgQR5
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MXdRPMOvFXdP8GVbFcMghOlM-bML2K-N

I hope you know what this is, and can tell me how to treat/stop the problem. Mostly because of the fish needs to have a good life, but also a lot because I have just got a CO2 system (yesterday), and looks forward to buying more plants and using plants from this aquarium to a aquarium I am about to start up. And of course I do not want to transmit the disease / parasites into the new aquarium.

Thank you in advance!
 

Ian L

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12 Nov 2019
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18
Location
Ampthill
Hi, have lost guppies in this aquarium for a long time. (4-6 months)

Symptoms
They "jump" / tilt sideways, stand still in the water surface .... and then for periods they swim around like nothing is wrong.
Some of the fish's poop turn into a long thin thread, as seen in the last video, where the fish died and a few days later.
I have read a lot about sick fish in terms of the symptoms they show. I think these are some kind of parasites, but exactly what kind and how to treat it I dont know.

If it is parasites or other disease, I probably introduced it to the aquarium when I caught daphnia in nature during this summer ... :(

I think your right to be concerned that they may have parasites; when fish repeatedly "flash" like the female guppies are I suspect irritation also the male guppy is showing fin clamp which is a stress sign.

Impossible to say for certain from here but my suspician would be Gill or skin flukes which can be positively diagnosed via microscope meanwhile,
However Its not clear from the video but the Plecs and Rummy Nose seem ok?? which seems a bit strange if its been going on some time- is it ony guppies that are affected?

On balance if it were my tank I'd treat immediately and let the cure confirm the diagnosis - thats how the medical profession do it :)
Dont know enough about what is available in Denmark to recommend anything and Im out of touch with proprietary LFS treatments.

My limited experience on this - a few years ago now, was to use a formalin dip for flukes and I understand some of the off the shelf Tank/Pool treatments for "parasites"are formalin based but Im sure there are others on the forum who will know more than I about this.

I hope this helps and others can give you more perspectives

Ian
 

Basviola

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Joined
3 Apr 2019
Messages
116
Location
Denmark
thank you for your reply.

Today I found a dead ancistrus... it was a younger one who had grown up to the length of about 3-4 cm.
But the 3 grown up ancistrus does not seem affected.

The SEA was stressing the guppy's and chasing them around... and eating their fry, so I gave it to my LFS.

The rommynose doesn't seem to be infected.

Will medecins to kill skin/gill flukes affect plants in a negative way?

And I should not share any plants from this tank to my new tank, before I have sorted this out.. right?

Any way I will do some research on formalin based medecins.
 

sparkyweasel

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30 Jun 2011
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And I should not share any plants from this tank to my new tank, before I have sorted this out.. right?
That is the safest way.
You could disinfect the plants if you really want to move them before the parasite problem is fixed. You could treat them outside the tank with something like Sterazin. Sterazin is not safe for treating your tank itself, because of the shrimps.
 

Oldguy

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27 Aug 2018
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Gloucestershire, UK
fluke-solve-aquarium.png
If it is parasites or other disease

Do not know if it is shrimp safe but two hits in one go. It is available on eBay. Good luck with your efforts.
 

Basviola

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3 Apr 2019
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Location
Denmark
Thanks for all the advise folk.

I will look further into it tomorrow!

I came across an advice on treating the tank with eSHa2000? What seem available for me to buy, and the active ingredient might be formalin as well. Again I will look into that tomorrow, and update with the result on treating these guppys.

Thanks again.
 

MJQMJQ

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11 Nov 2019
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242
Location
SIngapore
Thanks for all the advise folk.

I will look further into it tomorrow!

I came across an advice on treating the tank with eSHa2000? What seem available for me to buy, and the active ingredient might be formalin as well. Again I will look into that tomorrow, and update with the result on treating these guppys.

Thanks again.
Any internal parasite medication should do. Just do it in a separate small tank as a dip because most are not safe for shrimp.It doesnt say what ingredients it uses on its website but multi purpose seems like it would have multiple active ingredients.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/have-you-used-esha-2000.51917/
Says turns water blue so i suspect methylene blue as one of the ingredients at least which is safe for shrimp if dosed carefully but not sure about other ingredients.U could try contacting them to check whether it is safe for shrimp.
 

PARAGUAY

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Guppies from far east fish farms are very weak and tend to be problematic as far as immunity from health issues.This would partially explain why other fish are ok ,once you have ruled out over feeding any diet issues and water quality Best to get from a local guppy society if possible . It's a shame but gone are the days when shops bought from a fish keeper rather than imported
 

MJQMJQ

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Guppies from far east fish farms are very weak and tend to be problematic as far as immunity from health issues.This would partially explain why other fish are ok ,once you have ruled out over feeding any diet issues and water quality Best to get from a local guppy society if possible . It's a shame but gone are the days when shops bought from a fish keeper rather than imported
Agreed they are probably stressed out from shipment where they are all cramped together.My two guppies I bought for a nano tank setup died.
 

Ian L

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If it is parasites or other disease, I probably introduced it to the aquarium when I caught daphnia in nature during this summer ... :(

I dont think feeding wild sourced Daphnia is the issue - I agree with paraguay below about sourcing healthy fish. I understand that healthy fish can show small numbers of flukes.

Guppies from far east fish farms are very weak and tend to be problematic as far as immunity from health issues.This would partially explain why other fish are ok ,once you have ruled out over feeding any diet issues and water quality Best to get from a local guppy society if possible .
 

mort

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15 Nov 2015
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Mass produced guppies can suffer from bacterial infections (not seen the videos so if everyone is saying parasites or flukes then I'd only look at bacterial infections so you know what they could do), so much so that when we direct imported them from the far east they always came with some salt in the water. Low level aquarium salt additions can be a good qt protocol for live bearers. They also do best in hard water and can be sickly in soft so if yours isn't you might try buffering (we had a customer who kept losing them to infections and it turn out they were using a water softner, as soon as the switched to local hard water they did much better).
 

MJQMJQ

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Mass produced guppies can suffer from bacterial infections (not seen the videos so if everyone is saying parasites or flukes then I'd only look at bacterial infections so you know what they could do), so much so that when we direct imported them from the far east they always came with some salt in the water. Low level aquarium salt additions can be a good qt protocol for live bearers. They also do best in hard water and can be sickly in soft so if yours isn't you might try buffering (we had a customer who kept losing them to infections and it turn out they were using a water softner, as soon as the switched to local hard water they did much better).

Bacterial infections generally turns the body of guppies white which isnt the case in the videos.Visible darting, something like trying to rub against the rocks are sure signs of parasite.Cant see at least from the video so can guess its internal?
 

mort

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Bacterial infections generally turns the body of guppies white which isnt the case in the videos.Visible darting, something like trying to rub against the rocks are sure signs of parasite.Cant see at least from the video so can guess its internal?

Having now seen the videos I completely agree it's not bacterial and likely internal parasites.
 

alto

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I suspect there are multiple issues (secondary (& tertiary) infections are the norm in fish)
- glancing fish suggests body (external) parasites
- stringy feces fish suggests internal parasites (shedding of epithelial lining in attempt to limit parasite infection + intestinal parasites often “break down” the lining)
- surface hovering male guppy with that body shiver is commonly observed in Columnaris (initial site of infection is gill tissue, heart, then systemic spread and eventually surface lesions - depending upon the virulence of the Columnaris strain and also the host fish, this may happen over hours or days to weeks)

While a “dip” or bath medication is effective against external parasites, medicated food is the most efficient/effective treatment against internal parasites (if fish are still eating sufficient amounts) ... the praziquantel (treatment suggested above) may also be effective

For ease of treatment and monitoring of fish, I’d remove all guppies and any other symptomatic fish to a hospital tank (bare bottom)

I’d likely begin with an external parasite dip/bath tx - if effective, you should observe some relief within a couple hours - treat for 1-3 days depending upon response (I’d choose formalin or formalin/malachite green, formalin is better tolerated by invertebrates depending upon malachite green formulation ... note recently molted shrimp are susceptible to medication, changing water parameters until new exoskeleton hardens (usually 18-36 h))

Then treat for internal parasites (eg the praziquantel bath or levamisol~food)

Treating for Columnaris in the home aquarium is really about supportive care - optimum water quality, optimize oxygen levels (including reducing water temperature- within reason), low stress environment etc

In the meantime, perform large water changes with attention to gravel siphoning, wiping down glass (remove any biofilm) etc of the main tank
I’d likely treat for external parasites - it’s likely that all fish in aquarium have some degree of these - but it may be that just supportive care may work (monitor fish closely for early symptoms)

Don’t return guppies etc to main tank for at least several weeks (especially if you do not medicate the main tank)

The Manual of Fish Health is an excellent (& economic) reference text
 

Basviola

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Location
Denmark
Thanks a lot for all the advice...

I started a treatment of eSHa2000 today. I will see now see how they respond... the treatment takes 3 days with the possibility of extending a few days.

I guess I can make a conclusion on that in about 4-5 days and keep this thread updated.


If it does not turn out to help them and free the tank and plants from parasites I will look for medicine against internal parasites! :eek:

Thanks again, this community is pure gold! :thumbup:
 

Basviola

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Well I gave them the dobbelt dose of eSHa2000... that is for really sick fish:

1. day. 50 drops / 100 liters
2. day 25 drops
3. day 25 drops

then it is written that you can extend a few more days if needed...

4. day 25 drops
5. day 15 drops.

I am afraid the medicine did not work... at least on day 3 and 4 the guppy's was still 'jumping/tilting against some thing... and mabe even a bit more than before.
The male guppy is gone... can not find him, so think the shrimps took action before i got to him.
I think the bigger of the 3 femalrs look a bit better today, but the two smaller ones is hanging at the surface looking like begging me to end their lives!

It is really sad! And I might be a blahblahblahblah, but my biggest concern is to get the tank clean from this, so I can keep working on the acape... allways a woek in progress, and just got a co2 system that has made my christmas moss and S. repins growing... amasing after just one week or so with co2.

So i will observe them doing the weekend, and then I might look for the medicine against internal parasites.
Any recommendations on a eSHa product against internal parasites, as this seems available for me to buy?

Thanks
 

Basviola

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Denmark
Just out of interest what is your water hardness?
The water is 16-23 °dH... the numbers is from the water supply, and it is probably close to 23.
Why do you ask this?

Anyway, eSHa2000 did not fix the problem, so stupid I did not combine with eSHaExit from the beginning, as problem might have been solved already then.

I will get some eSHaExit it works on multiple parasites and single-cell flagellates. I cross my fingers!
 
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