magpie
Member
So.... I'm doing a DSM start on the 90x75x45 Optiwhite -details in the journal. While researching DMS on Tom Barr's site, I came across this:
I don't have filter from another tank and the four closest LFS (Maidenhead Aquatics, PAH, two garden centres) have all refused to give me some. I could get some from TGM, but I'm 90 minutes away on a good day and I gather (see later links) it doesn't travel well.
S0: Fishless cycling.
Like everything else, it seems to be full of superstitious learning but if Tom says it's a brain-slapper, I'll try it.
The best link I've found so far is here: http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Art_of_Fishless_Cycling
From which I gather:
Basic nitrogen cycle: Ammonium -> Nitrite -> Nitrate -> Plants = good.
Bacteria needed for steps 1 and 2 (NH4 - N02 and N02 - N03)
Those bacteria thrive best at:
- temp around 28 C
- pH 7 - 8 - definitely not acidic
- high ish GH and KH (my tap water, for once, is ideal)
- Ammonia 1ppm -
The last one is key - most of the fishless cycle stuff suggests kicking up to either 2 or 4 ppm - which will kill the bacteria who work stage 2. So it takes longer - basically until there are enough stage 1 types to chew up all the ammonia and allow the stage 2 to get going. If you keep at around 1ppm, then the stage 1 and 2 grow together.
But first you need the bacteria. Soil is one source. I bet worm juice is another, tho' I haven't read it yet. But it seems that at least one of the proprietary bacterial sources is OK - Tetra SafeStart - if it's in date, if it's been kept cool (!) is the bees' business. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work
So: I have a bucket set up, have put soil in a sock and a bit of worm juice just because I can. I've dumped in my last few dribbles of Safe Start tho' the bottle was nearly out of date when I bought it, so it was probably expensive garbage. But I can get more
My question - yes, there is one - bacteria need a food source. I can titrate 1ppm ammonia daily, but is there a better method of providing nitrogen to what is essentially a bucket of water? No fish or other livestock will ever go near this - it's simply getting as much bacteria on my substrate as I can before I put water in the tank (at which point, I will flush like crazy because it has Colombo flora-base and whereas it doesn't give off as much NH4 as ASA or the like, I bet it'll exceed 1ppm)
thoughts welcome
mx
You can also cycle the filter with mulm from another tank or start it running
on the other tank if available. If not, take the filter and place in/out in a small bucket and add NH3 to do fishless and tankless cycling. After 3-4 weeks running at rich NH3 levels in the bucket, the filter ought to be some what cycled. Adding a pinch of soil from outside to the bucket helps start things off well too. Why run a filter in the tank itself(dealing with algae if the lights are added, and doing large water changes to remove the NO3 leftovers, or NO2 etc) if someone does FC? Do it in a small bucket.
Another common sense brain slapper
I don't have filter from another tank and the four closest LFS (Maidenhead Aquatics, PAH, two garden centres) have all refused to give me some. I could get some from TGM, but I'm 90 minutes away on a good day and I gather (see later links) it doesn't travel well.
S0: Fishless cycling.
Like everything else, it seems to be full of superstitious learning but if Tom says it's a brain-slapper, I'll try it.
The best link I've found so far is here: http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Art_of_Fishless_Cycling
From which I gather:
Basic nitrogen cycle: Ammonium -> Nitrite -> Nitrate -> Plants = good.
Bacteria needed for steps 1 and 2 (NH4 - N02 and N02 - N03)
Those bacteria thrive best at:
- temp around 28 C
- pH 7 - 8 - definitely not acidic
- high ish GH and KH (my tap water, for once, is ideal)
- Ammonia 1ppm -
The last one is key - most of the fishless cycle stuff suggests kicking up to either 2 or 4 ppm - which will kill the bacteria who work stage 2. So it takes longer - basically until there are enough stage 1 types to chew up all the ammonia and allow the stage 2 to get going. If you keep at around 1ppm, then the stage 1 and 2 grow together.
But first you need the bacteria. Soil is one source. I bet worm juice is another, tho' I haven't read it yet. But it seems that at least one of the proprietary bacterial sources is OK - Tetra SafeStart - if it's in date, if it's been kept cool (!) is the bees' business. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work
So: I have a bucket set up, have put soil in a sock and a bit of worm juice just because I can. I've dumped in my last few dribbles of Safe Start tho' the bottle was nearly out of date when I bought it, so it was probably expensive garbage. But I can get more
My question - yes, there is one - bacteria need a food source. I can titrate 1ppm ammonia daily, but is there a better method of providing nitrogen to what is essentially a bucket of water? No fish or other livestock will ever go near this - it's simply getting as much bacteria on my substrate as I can before I put water in the tank (at which point, I will flush like crazy because it has Colombo flora-base and whereas it doesn't give off as much NH4 as ASA or the like, I bet it'll exceed 1ppm)
thoughts welcome
mx