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Spezial N - Nitrogen Fertilizer

These are the best ferts I've ever used (I've tried ADA, Dennerle, Tropica, Easy Life, Seachem, dry chemicals etc.)

Greener plants, faster growth, less algae on rocks. I've been using them for around 1 month now. My hairgrass is trying to grow over the rocks - I didn't experience that with 6 months of growth using TPN+.

I've no idea why and I don't understand the science, but I've enough experience with growing plants to notice a marked improvement in plant health and growth rates when all other variables are relatively constant.

I'm dosing 6ml Spezial N and 6ml Flowgrow Mikro per day in my 60 litre. I dose lots because I have an inert substrate. I don't need extra P as my tap is loaded with it.

My only issue is that I can't get my Ludwigia arcuata to go red despite high light and good CO2!
 
George Farmer said:
These are the best ferts I've ever used (I've tried ADA, Dennerle, Tropica, Easy Life, Seachem, dry chemicals etc.)

Greener plants, faster growth, less algae on rocks. I've been using them for around 1 month now. My hairgrass is trying to grow over the rocks - I didn't experience that with 6 months of growth using TPN+.

I've no idea why and I don't understand the science, but I've enough experience with growing plants to notice a marked improvement in plant health and growth rates when all other variables are relatively constant.

I'm dosing 6ml Spezial N and 6ml Flowgrow Mikro per day in my 60 litre. I dose lots because I have an inert substrate. I don't need extra P as my tap is loaded with it.

My only issue is that I can't get my Ludwigia arcuata to go red despite high light and good CO2!

sold!

where can i get them? :geek:
 
George Farmer said:
I'm dosing 6ml Spezial N and 6ml Flowgrow Mikro per day in my 60 litre.
so you dose these both on the same day and not on alternate days ?.
 
foxfish said:
andyh said:
sold!

where can i get them? :geek:
Yeah come on George you cant tell us they are the best around & not expect all your mates to share in your success - where do we get them?
Tobi sent me some samples that have been distributed amongst friends and UKAPS members. Unfortunately I don't have any left to share.

You can buy them from Tobi's shop, linked in my previous post...
 
I personally cant do before and after, and i'm not as competent as George at growing, but here's my nano, running on these ferts...

Acicularis just loves them.

Excuse the dirty drop checker :oops:

nano1.jpg


nano3.jpg
 
George Farmer said:
These are the best ferts I've ever used (I've tried ADA, Dennerle, Tropica, Easy Life, Seachem, dry chemicals etc.)

Greener plants, faster growth, less algae on rocks. I've been using them for around 1 month now. My hairgrass is trying to grow over the rocks - I didn't experience that with 6 months of growth using TPN+.

I've no idea why and I don't understand the science, but I've enough experience with growing plants to notice a marked improvement in plant health and growth rates when all other variables are relatively constant.

I'm dosing 6ml Spezial N and 6ml Flowgrow Mikro per day in my 60 litre. I dose lots because I have an inert substrate. I don't need extra P as my tap is loaded with it.

My only issue is that I can't get my Ludwigia arcuata to go red despite high light and good CO2!

If you use other sediments, I think you will see more improvement than just with this alone.
Until you do, you really cannot say much :idea:
 
plantbrain said:
If you use other sediments, I think you will see more improvement than just with this alone.
Until you do, you really cannot say much :idea:
I don't think I understand.

If I'm growing some of the healthiest plants I've ever grown in sand alone, with these ferts, surely that's worth saying?

Have you considered trying them, Tom?
 
Tobi said:
Hi,

i will not go into the details again guys ;). You can read everything in the posts before.
Especially regarding Clive I do not get you man. Have you read any sentence from my former posts? Is my English that bad?

HAHA :lol:


Plenty of folks have long dosed poorly and not enough traces, if they try something, they often pay more attention and keep up on things more. This has little to do with the dosing, make up etc and is much more the general care and watching of the aquarist. Still, for anyone that is limiting something in their own tank, whether it's K+, traces, etc...NH4.............all you have to do is add more of that one thing and see the effects. Nutrients are VERY easy to test and manipulate. So folks can certain explore once they have a nice growth and a nice tank to begin with. Only when you have a nice tank to start with, can you have any sense of a control tank to test any treatment against, a semi poorly growign tank suddenly comes into full bloom.......maybe it was 5 different things that helped?

Hard to say or be sure.

But if you have a nice tank to start with, then do a treatment, and are left with the same tank after........then the treatment really had no effect. There is a big difference between the two cases above.
I have never said that any system fails ... i have only told that some people have problems with certain systems and maybe need other options.

True........

I think why they fail and how to answer the question as to why something works, does not......... is much more important and useful knowledge than mere mechanistic "do this to cure your problem if A, B, C and D do not work".
Do you agree?

I do the same with GH booster.....maybe it was the CaSO4? Maybe it was the K2SO4? Maybe it was the MgSO4?
Maybe it was a general increase in TDS?

I cannot say either :silent:
Still, when added, it rules out a few things.
Same here.

From there, more questions can be explored.
That's useful.

And... I was never here for big discussions, just for sharing. Feel free to test the mix and make your own decision. Wheter it's related to K+ or some other synergetic effect.

But please remember that when using this mix that you maybe need to adjust the micronutrient dosage and/or the K+ dosage. There are some tanks that need more K+ than others. Especially when using the Spezial N for a longer time it maybe neccessary to dose a little bit more K+.

Best regards
Tobi

True, we can always adjust any mix. Most do. ADA, you, me anyone pretty much, we all adjust and stweak.
Maybe it's something else, eg, they where limiting things to begin with, and now are paying more attention to the tank(human bais factors, of which, there are a great many), maybe it's a nicer balance between NH4 and NO3, maybe they did not add a complete dosing routine, hard to say.

Problem is, many try something and then make the leap and say far more than the evidence/results suggest, without 1st seeing if the alternatives are true as well. Or if they can falsify them.......

Or we might also target the sediment also, and add a non limiting supply of ferts there as well for the roots.
Such methods, dosing etc..........all have one thing in common..........they provide excess nutrients so the plants are not limited. This hits a much larger target than say PMDD which limited PO4 and assume there was ample amounts in the tap, fish waste etc. Soils are easy also. It might be just there are few folks using soil + water column ferts together in Europe?? Many that use soil often avoid the water column, thinking that it is the cause of all their woes........Many water column folks have issues using soils, so it's hard to make that leap and get folsk to do both methods. I believe that would cure more so called issues for plant growth, then folks could focus more on good CO2 management.

So.......have you considered a specific soil to be made?
Many do the MTS, worm casting etc here, or they go with commercial brands etc (ADA mostly in the USA, Up Aqua is popular in Oz, Asia etc). It would seem to be a wise NEXT move in development for fert routine.
 
George Farmer said:
plantbrain said:
If you use other sediments, I think you will see more improvement than just with this alone.
Until you do, you really cannot say much :idea:
I don't think I understand.

If I'm growing some of the healthiest plants I've ever grown in sand alone, with these ferts, surely that's worth saying?

Have you considered trying them, Tom?

Is it the ferts or is the concentration as well?
Eg, is it the Fe additions?

For many folks goals, plain sand is a useful thing aesthetically, and many have trouble making the leap to soil, commercial etc or DIY........so adding some more Traces would stand to reason and a source of NH4 if..........there are few fish and you do not feed much etc.

My question for you and Tobi is really what in soils might be available that is typically not in the water column, and how might you use that information to make a better water column dosing for plain old sands? Mostly traces and NH4, which are very available in soils all the time whereas in the water column, much less so typically.
Ponder that.

It might give you both some ideas and some methods to try further down the road or modifications individually.
I do agree it is worth saying and it is has helped some improve growth. Hair grass is particularly responsive to trace mixes also and seems to need more than other species IME in plain sand. However, in rich soil, this effect is not strong at all. Chelator type might also help.

I do not seek answers, I seek questions.
 
Hi Tom,

short answer regarding the soil. Nearly 80% of all people tried those ferts have ADA Aquasoil Amazonia in their tanks and they do have a big difference in growth. I also only use ADA Amazonia in all my tanks.
And those people have not used any limited approach. Many do "EI" like dosing. You should know... you have posted some EI threads at flowgrow.de too.

I for myself see that nitrogen fertilizer as some kind of fert for the advanced users. It's not a nitrogen fert that will cure everything. You have to observe your tank and see if you run into a micronutrient shortage or a potassium deficiency. But when you have a closer look at your plants you will see how to react.

At all I can only say, that nearly all people using this nitrogen combination of the Spezial N had increased growth. Some needed to tweak the fert dosage after a while (see 2 lines above) and added some more KNO3 besides the Spezial N or some K2SO4 or more micronutrients.

And under those people using that new fert there was a good amount of people already using nitrogen ferts with urea & nh4 + kno3.

At all I'm just curious how those ferts are doing. That's why I've sent out alot of samples of those ferts. There will be people with problems with those ferts. I've seen that at flowgrow.de too. People who did not tweak the system after introducing the new ferts. But with some knowledge of what your plants need you will get good results.

I'm very happy about the first positive replies.

Best regards
Tobi
 
Hi George and Mark
Thats a fine tank and excellent colour as well.
I would like to put my 2 pennies worth, in my opinion plants don't need substrate or sediment as Tom would put it, but it helps.
What about hydroponics? You will see the best plants around using this method.
Also I can prove that some plants don't need gravel/sand/soil/sediment.
Unplanted Crypts
Cryptsunplanted001-1.jpg

Look here a earlier photo viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14159
hoggie
 
Could you dose the Calcium Nitrate Anhydrous with dosing spoons? Would it be roughly the same as dosing KNO3?
For example -

80-150 litre tank
Monday

1/4 tsp KNO3
1/16 tsp KH2PO4

So, on the next macro dosing day (Wednesday), could you add 1/4 tsp of Ca(NO3)2, instead of the KNO3?

This thread has been a really good read, thanks all.
 
Tobi said:
Hi Tom,

short answer regarding the soil. Nearly 80% of all people tried those ferts have ADA Aquasoil Amazonia in their tanks and they do have a big difference in growth. I also only use ADA Amazonia in all my tanks.
And those people have not used any limited approach. Many do "EI" like dosing. You should know... you have posted some EI threads at flowgrow.de too.

Thanks for the response.

I for myself see that nitrogen fertilizer as some kind of fert for the advanced users. It's not a nitrogen fert that will cure everything. You have to observe your tank and see if you run into a micronutrient shortage or a potassium deficiency. But when you have a closer look at your plants you will see how to react.

Well this is a bit like saying it works, but we do not know why it works.
This does not offer any insight or rule out much.

If I sent out placebos and told folks to observe carefully, many would report back "improvements"
When I do any change to an aquarium, I watch it carefully.
Maybe I never noticed the growth prior?

If there is any issue with Micros or K+, that is easy to add plenty of. That makes the issue independent of those confounding factors in your hypothesis.

I do not believe that there is some very narrow fert range requirement.
It is only when there are other confounding factors that such observed correlations occur.
I have yet to see any evidence otherwise. NH4 vs NO3 perhaps a small amount, even here it is not dramatic.

At all I can only say, that nearly all people using this nitrogen combination of the Spezial N had increased growth. Some needed to tweak the fert dosage after a while (see 2 lines above) and added some more KNO3 besides the Spezial N or some K2SO4 or more micronutrients.

Had to or just "decided" to?
So how do you isolate and quantify "better".
I'm asking so you can think about this and answer it yourself.
Is it specific to certain plant species?

I'm very skeptical of "cause" because for the simple fact it is much more difficult to demonstrate, whereas falsifying something is much easier most times.

One method you can use to show "better" is close, accurate O2 measurements.
This is often used as a proxy for growth growth.
But........as plants biomass grow, so does the increase in O2.
So the times between treatments needs to be small. Even if I did not add the Special N, I'd still have higher O2 unless I trimmed the plants. So there's some assumptions there.
Still, you should see a noted difference if the growth is actually increased, eg more carbon is fixed.

A good O2 meter would do the trick.

And under those people using that new fert there was a good amount of people already using nitrogen ferts with urea & nh4 + kno3. At all I'm just curious how those ferts are doing. That's why I've sent out alot of samples of those ferts. There will be people with problems with those ferts. I've seen that at flowgrow.de too. People who did not tweak the system after introducing the new ferts. But with some knowledge of what your plants need you will get good results.

I'm very happy about the first positive replies.

Best regards
Tobi

Well, there are folks with ferts in EVERY method suggested, that does not distract from the positive aspects. Clearly the method works, why it works and how well to relative to say KNO3 alone is another matter.
The sediment seems to be independent, so that seems like something we could rule out.

"It works, I do not know why, but it does, trust me".
You need more information than this alone.
 
I re read the original post and the ingredients listing.

One thing that is evident is a lot more Mg.....
This is a macro nutrient.
I use MgSO4 in large amounts, as do many using GH booster. I also add some to CMS.

"Especially with Heminathus callitrichoides you can get problems. Leaves getting smaller and smaller and the plant isn't growing as it should. Other plants show similar signs."

I have never had any issues with this weed.
frontedgepruning.jpg


2 meters worth.

So what other plant species?

This might not have a thing to do at all with KNO3 or K+ and everything to do with Mg.
Why? SF folks also have very very soft GH water, we found a long time ago, adding plenty of GH from SeaChem Equilibrium helped a great deal. Was it Ca? Maybe, but not likely. The water was absent of Mg in general, but rich in Ca, even if low.

K+? No correlations found, but there was plenty.
Erik's tank was well over 100+ppm. I'm in the 30-60ppm routinely.

Stop dosing the special N and try bumping up the Mg alone with the old routines.
Test it and then you can rule this variable out, or tentatively accept it.
This way you can isolate the issue. I do NOT think there is evidence that K+ at higher and higher concentrations is the cause for any of the so called plant issues. Hence my skepticism.

Much like GH booster, this is a similar approach to N by adding both Ca and Mg, you are not sure which of the two might be doing it, but I can say it is not K+ excess causing the issue, that's just correlation alone. You need to test this individually before you can say much more as to "why" you have the results you do.

If you add 10 things to pot and get better results, it does not imply all 10 are the cause, it might be only 1 thing.
Many hobbyist run lean on Mg, even with high GH, it might e mostly Ca++, not any Mg++.
So my basic question is have you ruled out Mg in the tanks where improvements where noted???
 
This would make sense as to why my last tank went so badly using the household water softener (it stripping Mg and Ca, replacing it with Na) and my HC really really struggled. Moss seemed fairly OK but not at it's best. I had completely overlooked Mg as being important until now. Maybe it's time to try some MgSO4 in my Mini M. The HC growth has become a lot smaller in some areas since flooding the tank. I am dosing Spezial N which as we're saying does contain Mg, but maybe not enough? P is the other thing I can see I may be lacking.
 
Hi all,
Could you dose the Calcium Nitrate Anhydrous with dosing spoons? Would it be roughly the same as dosing KNO3?
Not really, you need to find the percentage of NO3 in both compounds. The easiest option would be to use the dosing calculator from "James Planted Tank" or similar site:
<http://www.jsctech.co.uk/theplantedtank/calculator.htm>.

You can work out the same values for any compound. You need to work out the RMM (Relative Molecular Mass) for KNO3 and Ca(NO3)2, to find the percentage of NO3 in both compounds. You need have a periodic table (or Wikipedia) to get the RAM of each element.

K = 39.1, Ca = 40.1, O=16, H=1, N=14.

KNO3 = 39 + 14 + (3 x 16) = 101, N= 14/101 = 14% N or 62% NO3 (NO3 is 14/62 = 22.5% N)
Ca(NO3)2 = 40 + ((14 + 48)*2) = 164, N = (14+14) = 28/164 = 17% N

So in this case not much difference. But you also have to take into account that unless the calcium nitrate anhydrous has been stored in a desiccator? it will have gained water and now will now actually be the tetrahydrate form Ca(NO3)2.4H2O. I won't do all the addition again, but the RMM is 268.

Ca(NO3)2.4H2O = 268, 28/268 = 10.5% N.

So still not much difference in this particular case whether the calcium nitrate is anhydrous or the tetrahydrate.

cheers Darrel
 
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