Forgbit issues

joker01

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27 Dec 2017
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North Yorkshire
Please can anyone help with my Frogbit? It is only just surviving but not growing and isn't showing any signs of root growth. My water perameters are,
Water gH 14
Amonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 60-80
pH 7.0
Non Co2

The light is a Chirihos A series Set at about 15% which produces about 2000 Lumens


The tanks is 110 ltr and I am dosing using the EI method of 20ml of macro per week and 20ml micro per week. Also 10-15% water change per week.

Thanks in advance
IMG_20191207_204130.jpg
 

dw1305

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nr Bath
Hi all,
I am dosing using the EI method
Does that include magnesium (Mg)?
Please can anyone help with my Frogbit? It is only just surviving but not growing and isn't showing any signs of root growth.
It looks like it is probably an iron (Fe) deficiency. The net like deficiency symptoms on the older leaves and size, and lack of growth, of the new leaves are all suggestive of iron deficiency.

Have a look at <"Frogbit taken a turn...."> and linked threads.

cheers Darrel
 

joker01

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Cheers Darrel, Yes it does contain magnesium and I have just ordered some 13% Chelated Iron. Do I need to be care when dosing iron as to not overdose the tank with regards to the livestock?
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Yes it does contain magnesium
You always have to ask. Some of the American EI formulations don't include magnesium, mainly because they are much more likely to have appreciable amounts of magnesium in their tap water for <"geological reasons">.
I have just ordered some 13% Chelated Iron.
That is FeEDTA. It isn't as a good a chelator of iron at higher pH values, but hopefully it should work. Have a look at <"100+ppm calcium...">.
Do I need to be care when dosing iron as to not overdose the tank with regards to the livestock?
No, you should be all right. Iron is potentially toxic, but you would need add a lot more than you are going to add before issues occur.

You can us the <"Rotala Butterfly"> dosing calculator to give you an amount. I'd aim for 0.5ppm Fe for starters, which is about 0.4g of dry FeEDTA in 100 litres.

cheers Darrel
 

joker01

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Thanks for your help Darrel. From doing a bit of research from various sources I may be better off using an 8% DPTA iron as that seem to have better results in higher Kh and harder water.
 

joker01

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Its been 2 weeks of dosing 8% DPTA iron using the Rotala Butterfly recommended dose and still no change if anything its getting worse.
 

john dory

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It looks like you had some really nice leaves on there,at some stage.
Have you changed anything?
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Its been 2 weeks of dosing 8% DPTA iron using the Rotala Butterfly recommended dose and still no change if anything its getting worse.
It might take a while, because it will only be any new leaves that are healthier, because iron isn’t mobile within the plant.

Bit of a strange question, but have you noticed any more green algae growth since the DTPA additions?

Cheers Darrel
 

joker01

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Nothing has changed and I haven't noticed any algae growth.
I have just upped the light output today from 1500lux to 3000lux at the surface to see if that helps.

I am dosing sufficient macro and micro nutrients.
Please correct me if I am wrong, from my understanding as my frogbit has very little root growth that would I indictate sufficient nutrient levels.
Maybe it would be worth doing a full water test to measure what amount of nutrients are in there.

This maybe a silly question but can you have to high a nitrate level? As mine are about 80ppm. Could that inhibit the uptake of other nutrients?
 
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dw1305

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Hi all,
I haven't noticed any algae growth.
Possibly not iron then, because algae take in nutrients directly through their cell walls, and they should show a quicker response to available iron.
This maybe a silly question but can you have to high a nitrate level? As mine are about 80ppm. Could that inhibit the uptake of other nutrients?
It could, but that is unlikely to be an issue with the Frogbit. Uptake issues would only affect another monovalent anion (like Cl-), and very few of those are essential plant nutrients.

Both the lack of growth and high NO3 level may relate to <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. Plant growth is nutrient dependent in the same way that cars are built on an assembly line, at the speed of the limiting nutrient (or the limiting operation in car assembly). If one nutrient, or car component, is missing then the whole process grinds to a halt.
Please correct me if I am wrong, from my understanding as my frogbit has very little root growth that would I indictate sufficient nutrient levels.
Plants are quite plastic in how they allocate resources, so often high nutrient conditions they allocate less biomass to roots, because a small root area is garnering all the nutrients they need, but, you could also get restricted root growth where the plants are struggling to grow new tissue.
Maybe it would be worth doing a full water test to measure what amount of nutrients are in there.
It would be very useful, but it is quite problematic.

A proper water testing lab. could do it, but you are talking about a lot of money, because it is going to take several hours of a scientists time and several hundred thousand £ of analytical kit. Marine aquarists are having their water tested <"via ICP">.

Do you have a TDS (conductivity) meter?

cheers Darrel



.
 

joker01

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I have just tested TDS and is showing around 520 at 23c.

The tank is open top.

Liebig's law of the minimum
Maybe I should also mention the I am using the Aquarium Plant Food UK EI stater kit and mixing as per their instructions. As my tap water has around 30ppm NO3 could I stop adding KNO3 to my EI mix.

I have added some more pictures in order to try and find anymore clues to what the problem might be.
 

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Siege

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Thought you’d have soft water in North Yorks?

What does the water board online report say? It’ll be more accurate than any of our test kits.

I assume your tank is open top? What temperature do you have it set at?

Have you got a photo of the whole tank from the front?

Cheers

S.
 

joker01

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North Yorkshire
No North Yorks water is hard I believe our water comes from the dales. Reading their report my water is 14 gH
The tank is open top yes.
Temp is 24c

Thanks
 

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joker01

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Just tested my tap water using the API test kit and that also came out at 14 so I would say they are reasonably accurate.

I am starting to believe that maybe my tank water had gotten too hard for the plants at 23dGH. I have just done a 50% water change and managed to get it to 18dGH
 
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