Frogbit leaves dying

[Abarth_1200]

So I have some frogbit, it does grow fast. But I've noticed a few leaves turning yellow and dying. Can anyone help. I dose tnt complete 3-4 times a week with weekly water change 40-50%

I've also noticed build up of algae on the fluffy stems, is this normal? I thought fast growing plants was meant to reduce this but I still get it in both tanks. I've tested phosphate at just 0.25mgl

 

[G H Nelson]

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[dw1305]

Hi all,

But I've noticed a few leaves turning yellow and dying. Can anyone help. I dose tnc complete 3-4 times a week with weekly water change 40-50%

The <"TNC Complete"> should provide everything <"the plants need">, but they definitely aren't <"what they should be">.

Have you started dosing it recently? and if you have? what did you dose before? The reason for asking could be that they are leaves which were deficient in one of the non-mobile nutrients, <"which is now available"> (since you've added the TNC complete). Like below:

If you look at the Frogbit on the extreme left edge of the image (highlighted below) you can see iron deficiency (the leaf with the net pattern pointing up the screen), the yellow leaf, below that one, is missing one or more of the mobile nutrients (and probably potassium (K), nitrogen (N) or magnesium (Mg)) and the newer leaves, below the yellow one, are ~healthy.

The Salvinia will have suffered in the same way, but you can't really see it. You can also see that the Duckweed (Lemna minor) is pale green and that is probably a combination of sub-optimal nutrient levels and soft water.

or it could be you are still <"deficient in one of the mobile nutrients">, and the plant is shuffling that nutrient from the older leaves (which are then sensescing and dying) to the younger leaves. You could try upping the dosing a bit and see what happens.

I've also noticed build up of algae on the fluffy stems, is this normal? I thought fast growing plants was meant to reduce this but I still get it in both tanks

If it is Green Algae? You sometimes get a bit of it on the root hairs, and I don't really now why. Usually if the Frogbit is really enjoying itself? You don't get it, but again I don't know why.

The problem / good thing is that the "green algae" (Chlorophyta) share the <"same photosystems and basic physiology"> with all the higher plants, so it just tells you that conditions are suitable for plant growth.

cheers Darrel

 

[Abarth_1200]

I started dosing tnc about the same I got the frogbit. I'm also not wanting to overdose so as not to have too much nutrients in the water column as I have a feeling I'm fighting diatoms with what is a year old tank! Yes I rescaped it but same filter and glass. The algae is brown, the roots seem very fragile like they're rotting.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I started dosing tnc about the same I got the frogbit.

OK, I'd probably leave it a little bit longer, keep on dosing and see if they pick up. One of the good things with Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) is that it doesn't need much structural tissue (the water does that bit) so it can rapidly respond to changes in nutrient levels by putting out new leaf material etc.

I'm also not wanting to overdose so as not to have too much nutrients in the water column as I have a feeling I'm fighting diatoms with what is a year old tank!

I wouldn't worry, diatoms are <"pretty much universal in fresh water">, with species adapted to <"both low and high nutrient levels">.

Personally I don't actually add fertilisers on a regular basis, I use the growth rate and leaf colour of a floating plant (so not CO2 limited) as an indication of when to feed. Originally I used <"Lemna minor (Common Duckweed">), because it has an even quicker turn over of leaves, hence the <"Duckweed Index">, but it has a <"number of disadvantages"> and my <"duckweed of choice"> is now actually Amazon Frogbit.

The algae is brown, the roots seem very fragile like they're rotting.

I don't think that is algae, I think it is just detritus caught in the root hairs. Give them a rinse, under a gentle tap, and hopefully any detritus or dead roots will wash off.

cheers Darrel

 

[X3NiTH]

You can dose Germanium to 1ppm and it will reduce/eliminate Diatomaceous Algae. I haven’t used it because I haven’t had a need but if it’s ever present and annoying then using Germanium causes Diatoms to uptake the Germanium in preference to Silicon resulting in detriment to growth.

Mainly used for Marine culturing to eliminate Diatoms from the culture, the Germanium is environmentally non toxic.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

You can dose Germanium to 1ppm

I've got to ask, which germanium (Ge) compounds can you buy?

cheers Darrel

 

[X3NiTH]

Germanium Dioxide also known as Germanium(IV) Oxide, formula GeO2. Solubility is 4.47g/L @25c.

Haven’t tried looking for a source for a while, admittedly it’s not an easy one to get hold of and it’s very expensive but it is available.

 

[X3NiTH]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s one of the secret ingredients in super expensive bottles of anti-algae treatment (if you’re lucky).

 

[X3NiTH]

As I said super expensive, you wouldn’t need 100g to dose at 1ppm. I’ve seen it cheaper.

 

[Hufsa]

While the stuff about Germanium is very interesting, I think if I was the original poster here I would focus on nailing the basics of plantkeeping.
I second Darrel's suggestion that the brown on the plant roots look like detritus.

 

[X3NiTH]

While the stuff about Germanium is very interesting, I think if I was the original poster here I would focus on nailing the basics of plantkeeping.

Absolutely!

 

[Abarth_1200]

So are diatoms closely related to high silicate levels in my water, I've always seemed to have problems with this type of algae. Should I be testing my silicate in tap water and looking at a filter medium for removing it?

 

[Abarth_1200]

Attached image of what I always seem to have lingering along with the brown detritus on plant leaves, this moss is very good at catching and growing this wispy brown algae, any tips how to clean it off while doing tank maintenance, I think I need a soft brush.

 

[Witcher]

brown on the plant roots look like detritus.

which we all love to be decomposed and providing more nitrogen to the other plants

 

[MichaelJ]

I think you can take out the frogbits clean the roots off under temperate running water, get rid of the dying leaves (they wont come back and just stall recovery) and add a bit more fertilizer - I suspect you might not get enough Mg (with your tap water?) so you likely want to add that separately. You'll get this in no time (a recently shot of my frogbit):

Cheers,
Michael

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So are diatoms closely related to high silicate levels in my water,

Unfortunately not, you could potentially control their growth by removing <"all the orthosilic acid"> from the tank water, but it would have to be all of it, because diatoms are <"incredibly good at extracting silica"> for their frustules.

this moss is very good at catching and growing this wispy brown algae,

That one looks like it might be <"Fragilaria (Synedra)"> a filamentous diatom. It is common <"on aquarium mosses">, I've never had diatom issues, possibly because I always have snails and they graze them off.

I think you can take out the frogbits clean the roots off under temperate running water, get rid of the dying leaves (they wont come back and just stall recovery) and add a bit more fertilizer

Good advice, my Frogbit never looks this green and healthy, probably because it is kept on <"leaner nitrogen rations">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Abarth_1200]

I think you can take out the frogbits clean the roots off under temperate running water, get rid of the dying leaves (they wont come back and just stall recovery) and add a bit more fertilizer - I suspect you might not get enough Mg (with your tap water?) so you likely want to add that separately. You'll get this in no time (a recently shot of my frogbit):

View attachment 195548

Cheers,
Michael

That looks great I need to find magnesium then!

 

[G H Nelson]

I suspect you might be also low in Nitrate also, you would be surprised how much fast growing stems and floaters suck Nitrate out the water column in a few weeks!!!

 

[MichaelJ]

That looks great I need to find magnesium then!

I see your in Scotland. On the topic of Mg you might find this map and comment that @dw1305 posted interesting:

Cacl2 + MgSO4 in the same bottle ?

Hello,i have hard time to mix cacl2 + epsom salt in the same bottle, i'm bad at chemistry but i found that the reaction would produce CaSO4 + MgCl2, is that correct ? If i'm not wrong CaSO4 is insanely hard to dissolve in water, that's why i can't make it work ? i might be wrong

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Cheers,
Michael