fx5 or 2078

Discussion in 'Filters, Filtration and Pumps' started by alzak, 7 Mar 2010.

  1. alzak

    alzak Member

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    Which one of this two is better for planted tank I know fx5 is good with mechanical filtering and 2078 is good for biological at the moment I run xp3 which will be replaced and second one is ex1200

    2078 is bit more expensive but if is worth why not to spend a bit more also some new technical thing eheim out in it
    fx5 is just a a canister with good pump

    anyone can say good or bad things about this filters
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi,
    As a hardliner I'm fundamentaly opposed to filters that think for you. Listen to how one website describes the 2078;

    "New touch pad interface for electronic micro-processor controlled filter. Just set your required out-put and the electronics will do the rest..."

    This is exactly how Kyle Reese described The Terminator to Sarah Conner. Why not consider the manual shift 2080? If you like spending money then consider the 2081 Thermofilter. I mean at least that's a useful technological feature as it eliminates the need for a heater in the tank. People really need to think about the application of the so-called technology being marketed to us. Does it really serve us? Or is it another excuse to charge higher prices?

    Lets do a reality check; In fact, both the FX5 and the Eheim are good for planted tanks. The Fluval actually has a significantly higher flowrate - and that's better for planted tanks than any microprocessor controlled "wave- function", which is useless. The Fluval is noisier and is less well built. The 2080 is a better biological filter (only because it holds more biological media - not because of anything inherent) which is better for plants. I believe the 2078 and the Fluval have comparable media capacity. The Fluval is also less expensive. The Fluvals output pipe is awkward if you intend to use spraybars so some minor modification might be required.

    So you should think about what items are more important to you. Flow is very important and if your tank is much larger than say 170L then you might want to lean in the direction of the Fluval. If noise and quality are issues then the either of the Eheims get the nod. If your stocking will be high the 2080 should be considered. If price is an issue then the Fluval is hard to beat. You should definitely not consider technology in this decision though. No matter what, a filter is a bucket with a pump, and that's all it can ever be, despite vendor claims to the contrary.

    Cheers,
     
  3. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    Very true, I'd buy an appropriately sized "Eheim Classic", they've made them for over 30 years, and there is little that can go wrong with them, you can also get spare seals, impellers etc., which can be difficult when manufacturer are constantly changing models etc.

    I wouldn't use the Eheim media, not because there is anything wrong with it, but you can get suitable media a lot cheaper elsewhere. In fact even if it was a huge filter (2260) you could fill it with some ppI10 sponge and 15kg of "Alfagrog"for about £15.
    cheers Darrel
     
  4. alzak

    alzak Member

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    I was thinking thank all electronic equipment in 2078 will help keep good biological filtration as I want some filter to fill it with sera spirolax

    I just think that all electronic things in 2078 is to help as maintaining our tanks and make life much easier but do not know anyone who use 2078

    any ideas for filter up to 200

    there is one seller on ebay which sell fx5 for 145 but I'm just not sure about fluval and want eheim

    2080 is bit to expensive for me at this time
     
  5. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    That is partially what I don't like - the electronic equipment, it is the thing that is most likely to fail (particularly the LCD units). Sera make good media, I like the siporax, but the media is nothing like as important as various manufacturers will tell you.

    I've worked a lot on the biological remediation of landfill leachate (with a huge BOD) and there really is no secret to biological filtration, you only need 3 things, a substrate for the nitrifying bacteria to feed on, sites for them to inhabit and a supply of oxygen. In a planted tank, if the water is flowing through your filter media freely, you will have all 3 of these factors.

    cheers Darrel
     
  6. alzak

    alzak Member

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    nobody likes electronic equipment but we all use it everyday and just because is electronic equipment do not mean is not good and will broke soon

    is new thing in aquatic industry most of people do not like it but that is the future

    eheim is one of the best company and if they make something they put a lot of all kind of tests just to makes sure product which left a development step is fully finish and remember all of their products are still covered by 3 years warranty dosn't matter how full of electronic is it
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi,
    The issue is not whether electronic items are good or not good, but rather does it serve a purpose on this product? Biological filtration has nothing to do with electronics. None of the electronic features of this pump do anything at all to enhance the ability of the 2078 to process NH4 into NO3. This is why hardliners are vehemently opposed to this feature. As Darrel quite rightly points out, nitrifying bacteria do not care about microprocessor control. They live on the surface of the biomedia and process the chemicals in their local environment. As I mentioned before, the one improvement that would have made this 2078 worthwhile would be to have a more powerful pump or some other way to improve the overall flowrate through the filter.

    Eheim's integrity is not in question, however just because something is new, and just because Eheim makes it, it does not mean that it's more useful or will necessarily result in an improvement/ease in your life.

    Novelty is used by Eheim and by all product manufactures in order to market products. Our responsibility is to understand the fundamental principles of how our tanks function so that we make the right purchasing decisions. In this way, vendors will be encouraged to make the proper enhancements to their product lines instead of making superficial, or otherwise useless cosmetic changes. I'm hoping, that one reason you don't know anyone with a 2078 is because folks perhaps have come to this realization and have chosen to get better bang for buck by purchasing alternative filters.

    I know this sounds harsh (and I'm an Eheim fanboy, believe it or not) but this is the wrong direction. In a high tech planted tank, and even in a non-planted heavily stocked tank, flowrate is of paramount importance. Anything else is trivial pursuit. One reason the FX5 is noisy is specifically because of it's higher flowrate. It's difficult to design a quiet, high capacity filter. I understand that, but when I see this electronic trickery on the new filters it tells me they have decided that it's easier to turn the filter into a gadget showcase instead of spending resources on solving the more difficult problem of filter throughput.

    Cheers,
     
  8. alzak

    alzak Member

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    So looks like for most of you fluval is much better idea I do not know yet which one to pick
    price for fx5 is very good but i don't know how noisy it is as my tank is in living room and my GF will not be happy to watch telly with noisy filter on back
     
  9. JAS

    JAS Member

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    This is of no real help to you, alzak, but I wouldn't personally go for the 2078 or FX5. The 2078 for all the reasons already mentioned: just because you can do something, and just because it will likely work just fine, it doesn't mean you should or that you need to. We pay a lot more money for an electronic processor when the standard Eheims work just as well with less to go wrong. The FX5 also has electronic circuitry, and I've seen a lot of horror stories about the motors simply dying after about a year - easy to believe, considering I used to use Fluval 04 series canisters and some of them stopped working after only six months.

    Now I use Eheim. I've had Professionel I and II's (unfortunately no longer available) for almost ten years, and apart from a thermofilter which nearly boiled the tank, they've been faultless. The thermostat on the thermofilter, which is what caused the heater failure, is also electronic... doesn't put my mind at ease.

    Having used both the Eheim Professionels and the Classics, I'd now opt for the Classic almost every time. Much better value for money - I just wish Eheim would make a "2219" with flow around the 1500lph mark. I currently use multiple 2217's because I have a bad back and can't lug a huge filter around, otherwise I'd get the 2260.
     
  10. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    On the classic theme, I have a 2213, and while it's not a bad filter, I find it a bit awkward. There's no carry handle to speak of, so when it's full of water it's difficult to get out of my cabinet (mind, the cabinet is pretty tightly packed). Also, priming them is a bit of an art form, though I managed quite well when I set it up at the weekend :)
     
  11. alzak

    alzak Member

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    the problem is I need a BIG filter with big outflow for my 370l tank s
     
  12. JAS

    JAS Member

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    I use two 2028's and two 2217's on my 450 litre, but I understand that's not what you're looking for.

    If you want one big filter (or at the most two) with big flow, I'd go for the 2080 or 2260.
     
  13. alzak

    alzak Member

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    how about the 2078 do you happy with them ?? I will go for 2078 or fx5 not sure yet as 2080 is just bit to expensive for me
     
  14. JAS

    JAS Member

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    I've never used the 2078 or the other electronic filters so all I can give you is an opinion based on what I look for in a filter myself. Like some of the posts earlier in the thread, I'm not a fan of the electronics simply because they serve no purpose and there's no way they can be bulletproof like the standard models - though I'm sure they work fine and that you'd be happy with it if you choose to buy one. You can change the way in which the water is drawn through the bucket, and you can change the pump that's used to draw the water through the bucket, but when all is said and done an external canister filter will always be a bucket with a pump on it, as ceg4048 said earlier. I'm concerned with a filter that simply does its job well and works no matter what I throw at it.

    That's why I definitely can't recommend the FX5. I've been turned off Fluval externals by my own experience of motors repeatedly burning out, and by the number of stories about it still happening. But there are also a lot of people who are completely happy with Fluvals, so it's luck of the draw.

    What's perfect for one person is a nightmare for someone else, so it's hard to say what would be the best option for you. I don't think you would go far wrong with any of the Eheim Classics or standard (not electronic) Professionels, and I've also heard nothing but good things about the JBL e1500 which has flow rate of 1500lph, if you'd like to consider one or two of those. If you shop around it's also likely you could find the 2080 for a very similar price to the 2078, especially if you're not planning to use Eheim's expensive media. The FX5 will always get you the biggest bang for your buck, but it's false economy if the build quality lets you down.
     
  15. alzak

    alzak Member

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    I use one of fluval in my small tank and to be honest works fine no probs at all but for big tank I think I will go with eheim not sure which one still considering few as i only have space for one as second one is tetratec which I bought about 2 months ago so there is no need to replace it

    I will definitely do not recommended a fx3 as looks like flow rate is really small but maybe is just my filter

    about jbl I do not know much
     
  16. JAS

    JAS Member

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    What kind of tank and cabinet do you have? Unless I've missed it, I realise none of us have asked that question. Some of the filters are very big and might not physically fit if your cabinet is small.

    Apart from the Tetratec EX2400, which has a reputation for being very noisy, the big brand filters that have the highest flow rate without being too enormous in physical size probably are the 2078 or the JBL e1500. This is a review of the JBL if you're interested:

    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2592

    You might also be interested in this comparison of the 2080 and FX5, if you haven't already seen it:

    http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?t=68458
     
  17. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    I think I see now, and I'd approach this from a different angle, and think about what you actually want and need. Because of that I'll split the answer into 2 bits.

    Filtration
    If you have an un-planted tank, with a large fish load that produces a lot of highly polluting waste (say Malawi mbuna community, Oscar's, Datnoids etc), or fish that produce an even larger amount of less polluting waste (wood eating Panaque community etc) you need a large biological filtration capacity, quick flow speed through the filter media and a way of ensuring that the water remains highly oxygenated. These parameters are needed to deal with the large BOD and/or bulky organic matter, in this case I'd suggest a planted wet and dry trickle filter, rather than a canister. However if you did want a canister it would indeed need to be a very powerful one, with fast flow and a big media capacity, to ensure that the water in the filter is not de-oxygenated within the filter, and there are sufficient bacteria present to deal with the large volume of organic matter and ammonia produced.

    Flow
    However if you don't keep that sort of fish?, you will almost certainly all ready have adequate biological filtration, and what you are after is greater flow speed to distribute ferts. and CO2, remove mulm from moss etc , in which case you can do this with a pump or powerhead, (Koralia or similar) very much more cheaply than buying a new bigger filter.

    cheers Darrel
     
  18. alzak

    alzak Member

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    The ting is I need big filter to support a biological filtration as my XP3 flow is not the best also need a filter to improve my water flow for better co2 diffusing as I have planted duch style tank

    My cabinet is enough big to hide 2080 or fx5 as this is 4ft rena cabinet
     
  19. sanj

    sanj Member

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    I have both 2080 and FX5 on the same tank.

    Both are good had not probs for nearly two years.

    Fx5 higher flow, cheaper to buy, but with uglier black 1" ripped pipes, which might not be an issue depending on visibility.
    2080 well its an Eheim, great reputation, it has twice the media capacity, but significantly more expensive.
     
  20. alzak

    alzak Member

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    I will hide pipes on back of my tank so I do not see anything I will go for fx5 not 100% sure yet will see how good deal I find on both the best price for fx5 is 145 on ebay and for 2078 is 199 on zooplus anyone got better prices??
     

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