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General advice, almost ready to call it a day!

1. You are using high lights but are not so confident about your CO2 levels. Red flag. That should be your primary concern before anything else. Not sure at what moment of the day those pictures were taken but if that is the color of your drop checker then you need to bump CO2 up, or decrease light if you want slower growth. It will all depends on plant requirements and what you are after. High tech tanks are intrinsically high maintenance because of how rapid plants grow. So if it isn't due to algae problems then you still need to trim plants regularly. Whether you stay with a drop checker or go for a 1 PH drop, that is your choice, but CO2 in relation to light needs to be fixed ASAP.
The drop checker was at fully gassed state in those photos, I was wondering whether it should be a lighter green.... I think I need to check using PH.
But, how do I know what the balance should be between amount of CO2 and light intensity? I think you're saying that if I drop the light intensity then the current CO2 level might be OK, but how do I tell?

2. Your tank is underplanted. Lightly planted tanks are more difficult to care for hence why it is advised when you are new to this to shove as many plants as possible.
It feels like there are a lot of plants in there right now based on the work, but I guess there is quite a bit of the soil I could plant into still. Last time I looked at re-planting to a high level, the plants were going to cost > £200, so I paused that idea for a while.

3. Organics, partially caused by reason #1. Your tank has entered a positive feedback loop that is self sustaining. Plant health is impacted by your light/co2 imbalance. Organics are released permanently and more so when you trim plants every week since plants aren't doing well in the first place. The wood also contributes to such organic release. Your fish as well. All that put together creates a great soup for algae. So reduce organics and don't allow organics/dust to go to in the water column when you are draining the tank.
Thanks, this is a great explanation, along with what others have said about dissolved organics. I didn't understand this and I'm doing it all wrong. When I do "vacuum" the substrate (just aquasoil) I push the siphon tube (a gravel cleaner) into the soil about 1-2cm and watch it bring up all the waste (I think that's what it is) until it run clear, then I move on to the next patch. It takes ages and it definitely disturbs the soil. When I'm doing a normal clean, the water column ends up very brown with the algae off the glass and the stuff I've fanned up from the ground plants and soil. I'm then taking 75% of that away with the water change, but I guess I'm leaving loads of organics on the plants. I never thought about that.
I'll follow the advice about beng more careful in this area. I wonder whether I've got too much hardscape in there, which makes it much more difficult to get to some parts?
Good luck and don't give up. Don't get fooled by all those high tech tanks, "free of algae", thinking it's a piece of cake for the owner. They spend FAR MORE time maintaining their tanks than they care to admit. I myself spend easily 2 hours every Saturday and don't consider myself to have algae problems. I could possibly spend less time if I didn't have stem plants as those require trimming all the time.
I appreciate that! This is a dilemma for me - I really like the effect, but I have underestimated the work required to get it to a high standard and keep it there - and I am very time poor!
Thanks for all the advice, I need to get to work on it now!
 
You've had some great advice already @DaveP, and well summarised by @Hanuman.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is your ferts:



This is pretty lean dosing. If I have my numbers correct, your dose results in (weekly):

NO3: 5.04ppm
PO4: 1.96ppm
K: 10.64ppm
Mg: 1.12ppm
Fe (as proxy for micros): 0.14ppm

Whilst you should be able to get away with the levels of K and PO4, your plants could quite possibly be deficient in NO3, Mg and micros. I would at least double your dose initially, and when you next need to buy a bottle, go with the APT EI so it lasts longer (DIY salts would be even better) as it will allow you to revert back to 5ml daily. I would also get some Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4 - aka Epsom salts - available from Amazon/eBay etc) and add a little more, unless you know for sure there is Magnesium in your tap water, regardless of which APT product you use.
OK, I thought slightly leaner dosing would help with the algae and make it a little slow growing to help maintenance - I think 5ml per day is what they recommend on the bottle. It sounds like I need to beef this up and look into dosing a bit more.
This is all such a juggling act!
Thanks :)
 
@Wookii, here you go. I used 186L since that it what seems to be the volume of an EA Aquascaper 900 (90x50x45). Realistically if you subtract the hardscape and substrate it's probably around the 150L give or take, but let's just use gross volume.
Screen Shot 2022-05-26 at 15.39.22.jpg

Although it is slightly below the recommended dosage of the manufacturer, still I don't think ferts here is the primary issue, but it wouldn't hurt increasing levels up to the recommended values of course. You need to keep in mind accumulation. So realistically those umbers are probably far higher in the tank unless he does 100% WC each time which I very much doubt.
 
I think the EA 900 holds about 250 ltrs, advice for clean up crews I have read are 1 amano for every 5 to 8 ltrs,, so at least 30 to 50 shrimp, and 1 nerite snail per every 10ltrs so that would give you 25ltrs. You could also try some Siamese algae eaters they do eat BBA apparently, although my pair seem to avoid it.
Oh wow! I have underestimated... Also expensive! I need to try and find a decent bulk supplier maybe.

I had 3 SAE's and I loved them but they all ended up jumping out of the tank over a period of a year :( The last one got scooped up and replaced 3 times before he finally did it at night...
 
@Wookii, here you go. I used 186L since that it what seems to be the volume of an EA Aquascaper 900 (90x50x45). Realistically if you subtract the hardscape and substrate it's probably around the 150L give or take, but let's just use gross volume.
View attachment 189127
Although it is slightly below the recommended dosage of the manufacturer, still I don't think ferts here is the primary issue, but it wouldn't hurt increasing levels up to the recommended values of course. You need to keep in mind accumulation. So realistically those umbers are probably far higher in the tank unless he does 100% WC each time which I very much doubt.
On the bottle is says 5ml daily for 180L - so that's what I'm using - are you saying you think I'm still under-dosing on that basis?
 
@Wookii, here you go. I used 186L since that it what seems to be the volume of an EA Aquascaper 900 (90x50x45).

That's my miscalculation then, I thought they were 60cm front to back.

Although it is slightly below the recommended dosage of the manufacturer, still I don't think ferts here is the primary issue, but it wouldn't hurt increasing levels up to the recommended values of course. You need to keep in mind accumulation. So realistically those umbers are probably far higher in the tank unless he does 100% WC each time which I very much doubt.

They could well be higher but we don't know for sure. Micros and Mg in particular are very low - add some hard Surrey water and he could easily have micro deficiencies. Good to at least exclude ferts as a potential contributing factor.

This is all such a juggling act!

It certainly is - which is why it's good to exclude some variables from the equation when you are still learning to manage a high tech tank. If we can be confident that a) we don't have too much light, b) we have more than enough CO2, c) we have more than enough ferts - it starts to become easier to narrow down the factors that might be leading to problems.
 
On the bottle is says 5ml daily for 180L - so that's what I'm using - are you saying you think I'm still under-dosing on that basis?

I think the take away is we just don't know. Because some of the ingredients are on the low side we can't be sure - so if we increase them, we can exclude that as a possible factor contributing towards the current issues. Its a process of elimination to solve your algae issues. You have a set of levers/controls that contribute towards what happens in your tank in general. If we can remove some of those levers from the equation, and push the others in the right direction, the whole thing becomes easier to deal with. So far the levers you have to play with (in no particular order) are:

  1. Light
  2. CO2 level
  3. CO2 distribution
  4. Ferts
  5. DO levels (through surface agitation)
  6. Plant mass
  7. Water changes
  8. Maintenance
  9. Maintain a good clean-up crew
(Other folks will no doubt point out others, but they are the main ones that spring immediately to mind.)

As you can see - if we:

  1. Turn down the light
  2. Ensure we hit a decent drop checker colour from lights on to lights off
  3. Ensure that drop checker maintains that colour in all areas of the tank
  4. Slightly overdose the ferts
  5. Ensure good surface movement from the filter outlet (adjusting 2. and 3. as required to compensate for additional off-gasing)
  6. Plant heavily from the get go
  7. Change at least 50% of our water each week (more if we are suffering from algae - but ensuring we maintain 4.)
  8. Keep the tank and filter clean (but don't vacuum the substrate as you've just found out)
  9. Add some cherries and Ramshorns
We have then eliminated many of the levers, and gone a good way in the right direction on the others.
 
@DaveP
Lots of good advise up here but I'll sum up what I believe your issue is and IMO what your priority should be.

1. You are using high lights but are not so confident about your CO2 levels. Red flag.
2. Your tank is underplanted.
3. Organics, partially caused by reason #1. All that put together creates a great soup for algae. So reduce organics and don't allow organics/dust to go to in the water column when you are draining the tank.

The above seems to imply organics are being thrown over all around the tank. That is a big NO NO. You have to do it with minutia and only fan what is allowed to be sucked immediately. It doesn't mean you have to do the whole substrate every week. Just do small sections each time.

If you fix point #1 #3 above you will start seeing some clear improvements. Point #2 is advisable for better stability and I recommend it.
When you are fixing the above I would suggest, doing two WC back to back specially when doing big "cleanings" because despite what we think when you are cleaning and removing organics you are in fact potentially adding some more inadvertently by disturbing the substrate, the filter, the plants etc. So a second WC can drastically reduce organics as it is originally intended.
Great advice here. In fact I'm going to implement #1 and #3 in my tank immediately ... Well not so much #1 as I use a CO2 controller, and am reasonably confident in my CO2 levels ... I have reduced light levels by 50-60% though. I like the idea of two sequential 25% water changes instead of a single 50% one. One thing I do before a water change is to siphon the water into a bucket through a filter sock (300micron), and then pump that back to the tank. The idea being that this clears particulate matter, and then the water change reduces the dissolved organics. I've been trying to get on top of a Cyanobacter infestation for about 4 months now. I really understand what the OP is feeling!
 
ne thing I do before a water change is to siphon the water into a bucket through a filter sock (300micron), and then pump that back to the tank. The idea being that this clears particulate matter, and then the water change reduces the dissolved organics.
Not sure I understand the purpose why you are pumping water out to then pump it back in. You are only filtering large particles in suspension, not all organics specially those that are already dissolved, like sugars etc.

I've been trying to get on top of a Cyanobacter infestation for about 4 months now. I really understand what the OP is feeling!
Low nitrates, low oxygenation, higher temperature than usual, high organics, compaction. Those are in my experience what usually causes BGA outbreaks. If you want to control it in a 1-2 go, tackle the above, but I would suggest using Chemiclean to eradicate a big chunk of it and quick. I use twice a year on both of my tanks. No harms done after several years of use.
 
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Agreed - 300 micron isn't going to do a great deal @Aleman , I'd have thought you'd need to be sub-50 micron for starters, and not really necessary of you have a decent pre-filter on the filter. If you're pumping it back into the tank after just a 300 micron filter, especially if you're substrate vacuuming, you'll likely be helping to break sub-300 micron particles down further and spreading them all over your tank. Better to dump them down the sink, or onto your garden.
 
What would you recommend instead?
I wouldn’t mate. When you start the numbers game things get crazy. Test kits are good for checking you’re getting the same results time and time again, which in turn indicates consistency.

Other than that I wouldn’t even bother.
 
Hi all,
Not sure I understand the purpose why you are pumping water out to then pump it back in. You are only filtering large particles in suspension, not all organics specially those that are already dissolved, like sugars etc.
@jaypeecee sounds pretty sure that dissolved organics are the cause of BBA, so it might be best to start there first. Maybe try reviewing your tank cleaning methods and optimising flow in your tank.............I wonder if increased flow may sometimes help because it helps sweep away the organics more?
Agreed - 300 micron isn't going to do a great deal @Aleman , I'd have thought you'd need to be sub-50 micron for starters, and not really necessary of you have a decent pre-filter on the filter. If you're pumping it back into the tank after just a 300 micron filter, especially if you're substrate vacuuming, you'll likely be helping to break sub-300 micron particles down further and spreading them all over your tank. Better to dump them down the sink, or onto your garden.
I'm really keen on not getting any of the organic matter into the filter, I want all <"my mechanical filtration in an easy clean pre-filter">, mainly because I worry that "out of sight, is out of mind".

Ramshorn snails will remove <"BBA over time">, I don't think they eat the obvious tufts, but they graze off the sporelings <"in the biofilm">, removing it over time.

cheers Darrel
 
I'm really keen on not getting any of the organic matter into the filter, I want all <"my mechanical filtration in an easy clean pre-filter">, mainly because I worry that "out of sight, is out of mind".
Indeed. That's why I chose a filter where one can easily remove the pre-filter for cleaning. Aquael Ultramax 2000. I clean it nearly on a weekly basis. In fact I have a spare foam that I simply swap with the dirty one. 3 minutes tops.
 
You don't have to get all mathy here about 25+25 ≈ 50. If you do a 50% water change and think you stirred up organics/debris or whatever go ahead and immediately do another 50% water change.
Great idea, assuming the RO unit has caught up ... Actually it's more than possible, as I fill a 300L IBC container for water changes ... Remineralize and add ferts .... Hmmmm ... I might get on top of this bloody menace :)
 
PH test kits are inaccurate and a waste of money.
Hi @seedoubleyou

On what evidence do you make this sweeping statement?

Hi @DaveP

May I suggest that you try your JBL pH test kit on one of the liquids below. It's a rough-and-ready test to see what result you get:


According to this website, milk has a pH of 6.6. And, there's more:


JPC
 
300 micron isn't going to do a great deal @Aleman , I'd have thought you'd need to be sub-50 micron for starters, and not really necessary of you have a decent pre-filter on the filter.
Hi @Wookii & Everyone

Just to get things in perspective, dissolved organic matter (DOM) is defined as the organic matter fraction in solution that passes through a 0.45 μm filter. Let's put this in context. According to many microbiology books, the average size of most bacteria is between 0.2 and 2.0 micrometer (diameter). However, there are some that hold this to range between 1 and 10 micrometers. This, however, only considers the diameter of the organisms and not the length.

JPC
 
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Hi @seedoubleyou

On what evidence do you make this sweeping statement?

Hi @DaveP

May I suggest that you try your JBL pH test kit on one of the liquids below. It's a rough-and-ready test to see what result you get:


According to this website, milk has a pH of 6.6. And, there's more:


JPC
And you reckon they got those results using your JBL home PH test kit?
 
And you reckon they got those results using your JBL home PH test kit?
Hi @seedoubleyou

I think you're missing the point that I'm trying to make. Of course, the figures provided in that link were not obtained from a test kit. I suggested measuring milk pH using the JBL test kit. If the result obtained deviates significantly from that shown in the link (6.6), then it may be wise to question the accuracy of the JBL pH test kit. Simple.

JPC
 
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