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jack-rythm

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I understand that mate, but I'm saying allowing for the pads will ultimately let to Much heat out from the gaps. How about you attach the mat to the bottom of the glass and then lay the tank onto a sheet of polystyrene, then in this instance the little plastic bulky thing your worried about can be pressed into the polystyrene by making a small dugout for it to sit inside. That way from the front there is no gap, from the back there is no gap, and the wire is hidden with in the polystyrene, you could even drill a hole in the top of the unit under the tank for the wire to slip through, completely hiding everything ?

Cheers! Jack :)
 

George Farmer

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Hi Jack

Thanks for the advice. It's something I considered, but was warned that 30w maybe too much, hence the air gaps to allow for some heat loss.

I think the difference in 5C should be ok. Not sure yet.

By using your suggested method, I wonder if it would actually heat too much?

Cheers,
George
 

jack-rythm

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well you could embed very small air gap channels on the face of the polystyrene to the edge of the back, allowing for a nice ventilated flow distribution but still to a degree where too much heat isn't lost. so you could have a grid like formation slit into the top of the polystyrene all leading off to the back and sides, still keeping it hidden. the polystyrene would also act as insulation. if you have this on a timer you could control this too. I dont think it would be too hot, with air runners as suggested there would be a suitable amount of ventilation.. i trust your judgement mate :) I cant see or feel the mat so this is just a suggestion :)
 

foxfish

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I dont think the heat mat would produce to much heat if the tank was full of circulating water but, I would just leave the (stupid design) connector sticking out the back & see how it goes. I use even smaller (area cover) mats & although you do get an uneven substrate heat the condensation effect still works well.
This one only has a 150 x 100mm mat under a 300 x 300 base.

17dcec8f.jpg
 

Mark Evans

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A thought provoking idea on the 'dry start' method, George.

Do you think, if successful, you may end up running the tank full time in this manner?

Or do you still plan to 'flood' it' once it's established?

This could look quite something if run 100% dry start. Mosses would look 'tighter' and more 'compact' this way. The overall impression would be sublime with this hardscape.

I've often been tempted to do a 120cm in this manner.
 

George Farmer

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Thanks, Jack and Luis. :)

A thought provoking idea on the 'dry start' method, George.

Do you think, if successful, you may end up running the tank full time in this manner?

Or do you still plan to 'flood' it' once it's established?

This could look quite something if run 100% dry start. Mosses would look 'tighter' and more 'compact' this way. The overall impression would be sublime with this hardscape.

I've often been tempted to do a 120cm in this manner.
Hi mate

I love my fish too much to avoid flooding! But, yes, it's certainly an idea I've toyed with. A real landscape! The main issue I can see is the condensation building on the glass, spoiling the view (I'm using a cover glass with heating mat to promote 100% humidity). The alternative would be constant misting with an open top.

I have an ADA 45F in the garage that I may play with. It would sit perfectly on my desk too. I've promised my wife just one aquarium at any one time this year though...but it's not an aquarium if there's no water! Not sure how she would react to this loophole! Lol
 

plantbrain

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Route the stand base George. You make a small template and then clamp that onto the stand, then take the router and set your depth, say 7 mm.
Turn it and run the router inside the template groove. You just need a router and maybe an 8 mm bit. If that's a no go, try a piece of HDPE plastic 4-5 mm thick etc or some other material you can cut and transfers heat well, and cut the shape out you need. Then use that.
Foam= bad idea.

I see little issue for heater mats and argued FOR them vs cables for many years. Main thing is getting efficient heat transfer.
It will however do little good for the moss.

Just mist the moss 1-2x a day for 1-2 week. Keep the tank covered. Moss will be stuck to everything. Not sur eif this works for Mini pellia, works for any typical true moss.
I do it for my bonsai, see this one:
43ab3f76.jpg


Tried it with chopped Gloss on this one:

8a7b103c.jpg
 

George Farmer

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Thanks, Tom. Lovely Bonsai! :)

I don't have a router, but I do have another plan.

I have removed the foam pads and will replace them with one large piece of conductive foam. It's actually used to prevent electro-static build-up in ammunition containers. With this I can easily cut out a portion to fit the cable/connector, and it looks a lot neater.

If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?
 

ghostsword

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If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?

You mean mixing the lot into a paste? Not a bad idea..

What I tried a while ago was moss, some amazonia and a few pelets of osmocote (two or three balls), pulverised the lot, and then caked it on wood and rocks.. it worked out ok..
 

RossMartin

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Hi George,

Really looking forward to this tank!

What are your opinons on the Grobeam tiles. Do you think they are worth it over T5 bulbs?

Also do you think one 1500 would be ok for an ADA 75P or do you think i would need two? I would like to grow HC!

Thanks

Ross
 

George Farmer

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Hi George,

Really looking forward to this tank!

What are your opinons on the Grobeam tiles. Do you think they are worth it over T5 bulbs?

Also do you think one 1500 would be ok for an ADA 75P or do you think i would need two? I would like to grow HC!

Thanks

Ross
Thanks Ross. :)

I really like the TMC LEDs. They're proven performers and have a lot going for them - running cost, lifespan, waterproof, low heat output, glitter lines etc.

They're biggest downside is colour rendition for reds. I've yet to see the 1500 over red plants though.

T5 will always remain the most flexible for obtaining whatever colour rendition you like, and are much cheaper to buy outright. By mixing tubes you can really great brilliant colours too.

I would guess a 1500 Ultima over a 75P should be ample. You may have to experiment with suspending it from different heights above the tank to obtain the desired light spread. I think it would be too close to the aquarium using their MountaRay unit. Another option would be 2x 600 units with the MountaRay - see Ian Holdich's excellent example using 2x 500 units over an 80cm.

Finally, remember that HC isn't that demanding of light. As long as CO2, other nutrient and their distribution are ideal, it can be grown in relatively low light.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
George
 

bape

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Very much looking foward to updates on this journal and when it is all planted....

Because I have a very similar set up as you :)
 

plantbrain

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Thanks, Tom. Lovely Bonsai! :)

I don't have a router, but I do have another plan.

I have removed the foam pads and will replace them with one large piece of conductive foam. It's actually used to prevent electro-static build-up in ammunition containers. With this I can easily cut out a portion to fit the cable/connector, and it looks a lot neater.

If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?

Sounds good/better.

My ADA 60p is clean and is empty today.
I have a Mame prefilter and overflow on it.
I'm pondering going back to the CO2 gas.

I might try 10-20 different foreground monocultures over time.
Static for fuel storage, fire works, any explosives, are bad also, like Ammo.
I have some gas line and feed systems like that.

The jelly is too rich in nutrients for most mosses really, HC and small roots plants would work well, but only if you have some TC media handy, I would not buy it just for that, but recycling is good.
I've considered using it for growing out the Anubias white I like and first made popular about 12 years ago.
Load it up with sucrose so the plants does not need to make as much due to low Chl a content.

Blender, tank water, slurry=> add to rock, wood etc.

You do not need 100% humidity, let the tank dry out at least for 1-2 hours a day some.
 

plantbrain

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Thanks Ross. :)

I really like the TMC LEDs. They're proven performers and have a lot going for them - running cost, lifespan, waterproof, low heat output, glitter lines etc.

They're biggest downside is colour rendition for reds. I've yet to see the 1500 over red plants though.

T5 will always remain the most flexible for obtaining whatever colour rendition you like, and are much cheaper to buy outright. By mixing tubes you can really great brilliant colours too.

I would guess a 1500 Ultima over a 75P should be ample. You may have to experiment with suspending it from different heights above the tank to obtain the desired light spread. I think it would be too close to the aquarium using their MountaRay unit. Another option would be 2x 600 units with the MountaRay - see Ian Holdich's excellent example using 2x 500 units over an 80cm.

Finally, remember that HC isn't that demanding of light. As long as CO2, other nutrient and their distribution are ideal, it can be grown in relatively low light.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
George

I've yet to find a decent color from the LEDs for those red plants.
I have hope, but will not buy till I see and know there's ample proof.
 

George Farmer

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The jelly is too rich in nutrients for most mosses really, HC and small roots plants would work well, but only if you have some TC media handy...
I spoke with Ole Pedersen the other day and he recommended diluted yogurt (containing L. acidophilus) to attached the moss. Apparently the acidity helps to prevent fungal growth. The potential issue with using the jelly, like you say, it's too rich in nutrients.

He also recommended cutting the mosses up into 0.5-1mm bits using new razor blade to avoid bruising, which makes perfect sense.

Ole also advocated injecting CO2 into the aquarium to boost growth. He also recommended using natural light only, because his artificial light was drying the moss excessively. However, I believe he was using an enclosed hooded aquarium with fluorescent lighting. I am using LEDs suspended above, so there's little/no heat transfer.

You do not need 100% humidity, let the tank dry out at least for 1-2 hours a day some.
This is where most of the conflicting advice occurs. I hear that moss likes 100% humidity - but you say not.

In more news I've installed the heating mat so it's physically against the glass now.

It raised the temperature of a glass of water inside the tank to 27C which I think is too warm, especially for moss.

I've just installed the soaked soil and have a thermometer inserted into that, so I can see how warm the soil gets. I've covered the tank with polythene. The idea is to put the heating mat on a timer (say 1hr on, 1hr off) to achieve 22-24C. This is a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature, so should encourage extra humidity.

My plants have also arrived so hopefully I should be posting some more photos soon. :)
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I spoke with Ole Pedersen the other day and he recommended diluted yogurt (containing L. acidophilus) to attached the moss. Apparently the acidity helps to prevent fungal growth. The potential issue with using the jelly, like you say, it's too rich in nutrients.
Genius, works for Lichens (if you want to age a stone trough etc).
He also recommended using natural light only, because his artificial light was drying the moss excessively. However, I believe he was using an enclosed hooded aquarium with fluorescent lighting. I am using LEDs suspended above, so there's little/no heat transfer.
I think you are right about the drying, and it won't be an issue for you.
This is where most of the conflicting advice occurs. I hear that moss likes 100% humidity - but you say not.
Try Tom's method, if you get brown tips you need to keep the lid on for longer. If I was going to remove it, I'd definitely take the lid off outside of the photo-period, when the room is cool.
I've covered the tank with polythene. The idea is to put the heating mat on a timer (say 1hr on, 1hr off) to achieve 22-24C. This is a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature, so should encourage extra humidity.
I think that should be about perfect, I will be very surprised if this doesn't work fairly well.

I wouldn't worry about 1 hour on 1 hour off, in fact a little cooling may help outside of the photo-period. You will need to play with the timings, but I'd go for a cooler period at night (8 hours off?).

cheers Darrel
 

foxfish

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With reference to adding additional C02, attitudes might have changed in recent years but, I can remember this subject being discussed at length on the planted tank forum & I am sure Tom was a contributor to that particular thread?
Anyway it was decided that adding C02 was a total waste of time!
As we have establish from the start of this thread, there seems to be many avenues to success!
 
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