Glassware

Discussion in 'Filters, Filtration and Pumps' started by Themuleous, 9 Feb 2010.

  1. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    I've just swapped over my green eheim intake and outlet for glassware on my work tank and have noticed an instance reduction in flow around the tank.

    Just wondered if this is due to the small intake slits not drawing in as much water or is it just that with a spray bar the small holes mean water is injected at a fast rate compared to the glass outlet which is just a single flow?

    Any thoughts welcomed :)

    Sam
     
  2. Shadow

    Shadow Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Singapore
    interesting, I found the opposit but then I didn'y use the glass inflow, so it might be it.
     
  3. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Yeh thats what Im thinking.

    Sam

    EDIT - I guess if I really wanted to know I should run some tests with different intakes and outlets to see how long each one took to fill a bucket.
     
  4. AdAndrews

    AdAndrews Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    Kidderminster, Worcs
    when i put my lily on instead of the tetratec outlet, it increased flow, but, the glass intakes really do slow the flow down, i think this is due to the inside diameter of the lily pipes being smaller than the inside diameter of the tubing to your filter, so less water can get through.
     
  5. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Yeh I see your point, must be similar to the inside diameter of the eheim intake though I would have thought?

    Sam
     
  6. Jase

    Jase Member

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Stourbridge
    If your Eheim hose goes over your glassware then the outer diameter of the glassware is the same as the inner diameter of the hose, meaning the inner diameter of the glassware is a couple of mm less than the Eheim, probably more than 10% less diameter
     
  7. OllieNZ

    OllieNZ Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Witney, UK
    Checked mine and the ehiem intake is smaller diameter then the ehiem hose as well. So diameter shouldn't be the problem. The amount or way the holes on the intake a shaped is more likely to be causing the problem.I was looking at marine overflows the other day and came across a rule about flow through square/rectangular pipes vs circular pipes (cant find the page now :twisted: ) but basicly it said that a rectangular pipe with the same cross sectional area as a circular pipe would flow less.
    Now to the relevant bit if the area of the rectangular slots on the intake is equal to or only slightly larger than the cross sectional area of the pipe then they will be restricting the flow. I will keep hunting the page and link it when I find it.

    *Edit* Found it Equivalent Diameter http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/equivalent-diameter-d_205.html


    Regards

    Ollie
     
  8. AdAndrews

    AdAndrews Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    Kidderminster, Worcs
    it would cut it down about 2-3mm i would have thought, taking a once 12mm hose to 9-10mm.
     
  9. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    I've been trying to open up the inlets on my lilys for quiet a while now and I've found no easy way. Anyone have any suggestions on how I'd go about it?
     
  10. OllieNZ

    OllieNZ Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Witney, UK
    Very carefully :lol:
    Depends on which type it is ive seen a few and I think the easiest to enlarge would be the ones with vertical slots you could then lengthen the slots without making them wider. I would use a dremel type tool with a very fine (the finer the better) stone or sand paper disk on it. securely mount the lilly so you have both hands and can control the tool better. Use a quite a high speed and very minimal pressure. Keep it cool with water so you dont crack the glass, heat will be the biggest enemy.
    Go slowly

    Regards

    Ollie
     
  11. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    I'd want to put vertical slits in but I don't know where to start, I tried a dremmel... Didn't work for me, shattered straight away.
     
  12. OllieNZ

    OllieNZ Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Witney, UK
    What sort of bit were you using? you could also try a fine file

    Regards

    Ollie
     
  13. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    Tried the file too, made no difference what so ever.
    I used a disk that said on the box meant for cutting glass. Very sharp powdery thing.
     
  14. OllieNZ

    OllieNZ Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Witney, UK
    Any chance of a pic of the tool it may be that it is to rough still. Direction of rotation will probably affect it aswell. The most important thing will the amount of pressure applied and that the tool is not to rough any vibration will shatter the glass especially with a carbide/diamond tool. That is why a very fine stone or sandpaper tool would be better, slower the tool wont last as long but its softer so less risk of shattering.
    The lilly glass may also be be stressed from manufacture and the only way to do anything with it is get it annealed.

    Regards

    Ollie
     
  15. AdAndrews

    AdAndrews Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    Kidderminster, Worcs
    dont you have to slightly warm pieces of glass before making adjustments, such as this? and i remember hearing something about making sure you use water when you cut it.. not much help, i know :?
     
  16. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Having recently swapped my Eheim 2080 for a JBL 1500 I decided to try a few different configurations for intakes and outlets to see what sort of different glassware makes.

    I wont bore everyone with the details, but basically the type of intake seemed to make little difference to the amount of water the filter was pumping. I didnt do any timed measurements into a bucket but the flow out of the outlet seemed exactly the same with either a glass intake or plastic intake.

    What did make a difference was the type of outlet used. Now this I dont think actually changed the amount of water being pumped by the filter, what it did do was change the flow around the tank. The glass 'lily' created noticeably less flow around the tank compared to a plastic eheim 'crook' (NB - I didnt use the spray bar just to the 'hook' with no attachment). This I am thinking is a result of the wide lily mouth that allows the water to slow down quickly upon leaving the lily, whilst the plastic 'crook' keeps the flow in a concentrate 'flow' and thereby increases the force with which the water if pushed around in the tank.

    Given this I'm going to use a glass intake and plastic outlet from now on. For me it is the plastic intake that looks the most ugly anyway.

    Sam

    PS - I also had a glass lily break on me the other day. Luckily enough I was standing next to the tank at the time so I was able to grad it a put it into the tank, if I hadn't been it would have emptied half the tank on to the sitting room carpet. I think the lily was sucking in air as it was close to the waters surface and this was causing it to flex which eventually snapped the 'lily' part clean off!
     
  17. andyh

    andyh Member

    Messages:
    1,933
    Location:
    Derby
    Sam

    Excellent research and being honest i am not supriesd with your findings! Thats why i have taken the next step to the wide mouth eheim return to create even more flow. I often wonder how people get sufficent flow using the lily pipes i know everybody oversizes filters bet even so a wide end on a pipe will not give as much pressure.

    Andy
     
  18. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

    Messages:
    4,126
    Location:
    Aston, Oxfordshire
    Do you have a link to that eheim outlet, Andy?
     
  19. chilled84

    chilled84 Member

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Newcastle
  20. andyh

    andyh Member

    Messages:
    1,933
    Location:
    Derby
    Sam

    The second link Chilled has listed is what i use, it is just a pinched normal outlet (if you know what i mean?), creates good flow.
    [​IMG]

    If you want i may have a video of mine?

    Andy
     

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