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Glutaldehyde for ick treatment

tiger15

tiger15

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Glutaldehyde is one of two ingredients in Seachem Paraguard for ick treatment. The other ingredient is Malachite Green. Glut is essentially double aldehyde chemically similar to formaldehyde (mono aldehyde), the latter is a common ingredient in ick remedy. So using Glut for ick treatment is logical.

Since I already carry Glut for algae control, it's convenient to use Glut in lieu of commercial ick remedy because Glut has the additional benefit as a carbon source for plants, it doesn't stain the water like Malachite Green, and it is cheap as I bought the generic in bulk. So if it works, Glut is a good Ick remedy or prophylaxix.

The only question I have is what is the right dosage using Glut for ick treatment. I did my research and couldn't find any information. I am sure there are smart people in the forum that can help me figure out.

I did figure out that Seachem Excel recommends 2 ppm for initial dosage after WC, and 0.4 ppm daily thereafter as a carbon source. What Seachem doesn't tell you is that the recommended dosage is also good for algae control.
 
Easycarbo recomends maximum 2ml/50l, from experience i can tell it controls algae pretty well.. Don't actualy know if that is a max dose regarding plants or lifestock, but i red reports of people doubling that. :) For ick treatment i have no idea, but Glut is originaly a disinfectant killing more than algae only.. From that aspect it's a bit simmular to Esha 2000 also containing a disinfectant and anticeptic, which claims to be a remedi against a wide range of infections and parasites. Ick might be one of such parasites.

@Edvet might be able to say more about it..
 
tiger15 said:
Glutaldehyde is one of two ingredients in Seachem Paraguard for ick treatment.
Click to expand...
:confused:
Can you provide details on this?

Acc. Seachem website

ParaGuard™ employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicates many ectoparasites (e.g. ich, etc.) and external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions (e.g., fin rot).
Click to expand...

The important point in the above statement is
synergistic
This is a well documented mode of action for Formalin (ie formaldehyde) and malachite green which is why it’s one of the most common formulations of anti-ich treatments
Interestingly different ”salts” of malachite green offer different levels of activity, eg, MG chloride vs MG oxalate


Seachem has also researched and developed various “protective polymers” and is one of the few companies that supplies well documented (fish veterinary research institutes in addition to their own testing) fish medications and treatment protocols
 
And

No, I would not use glutaraldehyde as an external event parasite medication - not without finding some well documented treatment protocols (in my recollection, it has poor efficacy hence its lack of development for such a use)
 
Here is a link to Seachem Paraguard that lists Glut and MG as the primary ingredients.

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailym...pdf&name=984f46c0-6651-46c6-b5f2-e86b557953c7

Seachem claims that it employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicates many ectoparasites (e.g. ich, etc.) and external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions (e.g., fin rot).

Many commercial ick remedies combine MG with formalin. The combination is deadly effective because MG attacks ick embedded in fish skin, and formalin kills off free swimming larvae. Seachem combines MG with Glut, claiming Glut is a safer alternative to formalin.

Formalin is rarely used today as a stand alone ick remedy, but it is still widely used as a prophylaxis in commercial settings. My LFSs told me they flush the systems with formalin weekly to safeguard frequent stocking. Similar to formalin, Glut is a broad spectrum biocide used to eradicate bacteria, protozoa, viruses and algae. So I have no doubt Glut can be effective in eradicating ick larvae provided the right dosage is used which is the key to any effective remedy. My question is what is the right dosage?

I recently has an ick outbreak due to introduction of new plants from a LFS. I am pissed off as I don't understand how it could happen as the plants came from fishless tanks. I am now dosing Glut following Seachem Excel recommended initial dosage after WC for algae control, ie 2 ppm daily to see how it goes. I hope I can avoid MG treatment as it stains the water for the duration of treatment, which can be 2 to 3 long weeks IME.
 
Thanks for the link

I preferentially use Hikari Formalin (only) based IchX treatment for ich

In my experience it’s one of the most effective treatments (I follow Veterinary text protocols eg, Formalin/Fish Parasites ) and avoids the adverse reactions that can occur with Malachite Green (& other dyes) (Hikari also sells a Formalin/MG formulation which is much more commonly available and relies on the synergy of action)
I suspect that “straight” Formalin is not popular at the hobby level as it’s an invisible treatment

There are still several F/MG remedies on the NA market (that outsell the alternative medications - at least locally) but obviously these are not available in the UK (which chose to support the use of the acridines)

FWIW I’ve not found ParaGuard to be particularly effective against ich - though it does seem to provide supportive care

It is well tolerated/received by Betta splendens in cases of possible “velvet” or secondary infections in (suspected and likely) Mycobacterium cases

It maybe that the refractive ich cases were merely MG tolerant (an increasing problem with treating ich in ornamental fish)


tiger15 said:
My LFSs told me they flush the systems with formalin weekly to safeguard frequent stocking.
Click to expand...
Depending on how this is done, it’s an adequate or worst (tolerance development) idea :)

Most fish arrive from wholesale trade sources with ich present - it may be low level or an infestation - ich vaccines have been used in food production fish (with varying success) but (I suspect) cost has limited its use with ornamental fish (which can be treated more easily/cheaply with various medications)
BUT ich doesn’t usually clear with a single treatment of any medication

In your situation, I’d just use Formalin rather than Glutaraldehyde - I suggest the use of medical grade Glutaral rather than generic grades of glutaraldehyde re contaminants which may be possibly toxic
Check online for Glutaral protocols against fish parasites to find a dosage/frequency

Again, FWIW I had noticed some fin clamping in newly purchased fish, I added Seachem Excel at the post water change dosage level (yes I did an 80% wc first) as I’d also noticed a bit of BBA on the wood
BBA was pink the next day, but fish didn’t look any happier
I did another large water change and treated with IchX - fish were noticeably happier a couple hours later
Note I never saw any ich spots, so only did two IchX doses (lights off for duration) combined with large wc’s and just monitored fish after
 
What sort of new plants?

Does shop combine nursery and pond sourced plants in the same tank?
 
I’m also very cautious when buying plants - if fish are in the same tank, I either don’t purchase (even Tropica emerse culture) or only add the plants to non-fish tanks (or no fish added for 3-4 weeks)
 
The plants I bought in the store are nursery grown plants, so they are emerged grown plants. The turn over rate is fast, so the plants only stay in the store tanks for a short time. Except for snails and likely a few ottos, the store tanks are practically fishless.

When I bought new fish, I quarantine them. I have no option to quarantine plants as I have only one planted tank set up. Placing plants in non planted tank set up is a guarantee for melting.

I do not use SeaChem excel, but generic Glut Merticide which I bought in bulk cheaply. I know it is not pure grade, but I have used it for years to control bba with no issue. Glut is a carbon source and won’t hurt plants at the right dosage, so I’m comfortable to put it for new use. IME, MG formalin combo is most effective, but the blue stain and requirement for frequent large WC to reset is no go for me, not to mention that generic Glut is only a fraction of the cost of MG formalin combo.
 
I am providing update of my 2 week experiment using Glut to combat ich infection in my tank.

It started out with new plants introduced to my tank. White spots broke out in two Electric Blue Acara, none other fish showed sign of infection yet. I administered 2 ppm Glut immediately, which is the recommended initial dosage by Seachem Excel after each WC. I continued the 2 ppm dosage daily for the next 2 weeks, but administered half in the morning, and half in the evening. There is no stress observed in all inhabitants, so 2 ppm daily is tolerable by all fish. The white spots on the EBA did not go away but expanded to pepper up the entire body in the first week. I was about to give up and switch to Malachite Green treatment, but since I did not observe transmission of ich to other fish, I continued the Glut treatment. Finally after about 10 days, I saw improvement in the EBA. The white spots were fading, look more like blurred white spots than the solid white spots in early stage. As of 2 weeks, the white spots have not completely cleared up, but the fish continue to eat and appear to be on the way of healing.

My deduction from the experiment is that Glut at 2 ppm is harmless to fish and effective in stopping ich transmission, but not very effective in healing existing ich. Perhaps higher dosage of Glut, around 4 to 6 ppm, will work better and faster. Toxicity studies on Glut showed that Blue Gill sunfish can tolerate Glut up to 10 ppm with no observed ill effect.

If I have unlucky outbreak next time, I will start with Malachite Green for the first 3 days to strike ich head on, followed by Glut for the next 2 weeks to root out any free swimming larvae. Nothing in my research is as effective as MG in penetrating and attacking ich on fish skin.
 
I would start with a potassium permanganate (PP) bath of approximately 1ppm, or preferably look to dab affected areas outside the gills. I don't think glutaldehyde would be able to penetrate into the cysts because they are hidden behind the fish's epithelium and slime coat, reactivity with skin proteins is a major factor in limiting percutaneous absorption. On the other hand, PP is used as a topical skin treatment and is more likely to permeate into affected tissue. I'm glad you posted this about this treatment and found it very informative.
 
tiger15 said:
With similar chemical structure, I assume the effectiveness of glut is similar to formalin
Click to expand...
Formaldehyde structure
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/formaldehyde#section=3D-Conformer

Glutaral structure
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/glutaraldehyde#section=3D-Conformer

So, no, not really - imagine both 3D structures attempting to slip through “a membrane transfer site” or if bound at similar ...
They do share a reactive group, so chemical reactivity has some overlap but one is a cross linking agent, one is not ... pubchem usually has decent summary information
 
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