Growth slowed?

[andy198712]

Hi,

wondering if you can shed some light on my slow growth on my tank.

200L with medium stocking of small fish, 1 bristle nose, 3 clown loach and some amano shrimp around 10.

filter: 307 with spray bar
circulation pump: Jebao SW-2 with 2500l/hr max but ran at 3/8th power (max turns the tank into a storm!)
Leddy LED light 14w x2 but only run one for 5 hours a day at the minute and its facing up to reduce intensity.
Weekly water change of about 1/3rd water capacity
monthly filter clean.
tank set is about 1 year old and steady. (the fish are breeding)
substrate (a plant non soil substrate but i forget the brand sorry)
liquid CO2 5ml per day EASY CARBO

I don't really know where to start.
i setup the tank, was actually going quite well, i put a good amount of plants in:
valis = grew well
Anubis = grew well
java fern = grew well
few other common ones i forget the names but you'll spot them in the pics.
floating plants = almost doubling in quantity each week!

i was dosing ferts daily with neutro ferts and all was going well, i probably had the light on about 7.5-8 hrs a day if i recall. both LED tubes.

but then growth seemed to slow and hair algae and BBA started to appear. mainly on the Anubis, but also any part of a plant that wasn't new growth which was annoying.
i reduced the light, currently on ONE led tube 5 hours a day and i have it rotated up to reduce its intensity.

i had to ditch a fair few plants which was a shame and trimmed off all the effected stuff, i threw in some fast growing plants to help. i removed my large bog wood and scrubbed that and peroxided that after to kill off anything, gave the anubis a quick 2-3min bath too.
i switched to TNT COMPLETE as the EI starter kits were out of stock, but i did noticed two shrimp die after starting that but maybe unrelated.
so today i have started EI adding 30ml of each on alternate days (basically as reccomened)

My theory is my plant mass had maxed out the ferts i was adding, things slowed down, algae took hold and it was a down ward spiral from there??
but the floating plants still seems to double in amount each week, probably removing about A5 size of plants each week?! i keep them contained in a ring about the dia off a football.

So my plan of action.

Keep lighting to 5 hours a day.
EI ferts
Keep up EASYCARBO

see how i go?
am i missing a thing there? part of me wonders if there isn't enough light at one tube facing toward the lid, and only 5 hours but thats just me doubting things.

ill add some pics.

cheers
Andy

 

[andy198712]

I basically lost the plants on the right to algae
But the stem plants at the back I still have but they aren’t growing half as fast.

 

[andy198712]

Here is how it looks today. I have a good bed of Anubis (all from the same mother plant which has taken along time to make)
Good bed of Java too,
Fast growers on the extreme left (forget the name)

The monty Carlo is just shrinking and dying off tbh?!

 

[John q]

I don't really know where to start

Most good stories usually start at the beginning.

Seeing as you posted this on all hollows eve I should probably say this tank is a shocker, thankfully that's not the case 😃

I'm guessing the plants ran out of steam mate, it happens, everything chugs along nicely then it all goes pear shaped.

Truth is you probably had a bit to much light in there, meaning the plants demands outstripped what you could supply. I doubt that demand was fertiliser, suspect it was co2.

The good news is help is at hand... the plants to the left (edit: right) are limnophila sessiliflora and Hygrophila polysperma, neither require high levels of co2 or light, but in my experience will suffer from reduced lighting periods.

If this were my tank I'd probably stick with the one led tube, but up the duration to 7 or 8 hrs, your fertiliser regime should be more than enough for this tank and won't be the cause of shrimp loss, carbo dosing on the other hand could account for shrimp death so dose this with caution and direct it where its needed, rather than treating the tank has a whole.

Keep the faith mate 🙏.

 

[andy198712]

Most good stories usually start at the beginning.

Seeing as you posted this on all hollows eve I should probably say this tank is a shocker, thankfully that's not the case 😃

I'm guessing the plants ran out of steam mate, it happens, everything chugs along nicely then it all goes pear shaped.

Truth is you probably had a bit to much light in there, meaning the plants demands outstripped what you could supply. I doubt that demand was fertiliser, suspect it was co2.

The good news is help is at hand... the plants to the left are limnophila sessiliflora and Hygrophila polysperma, neither require high levels of co2 or light, but in my experience will suffer from reduced lighting periods.

If this were my tank I'd probably stick with the one led tube, but up the duration to 7 or 8 hrs, your fertiliser regime should be more than enough for this tank and won't be the cause of shrimp loss, carbo dosing on the other hand could account for shrimp death so dose this with caution and direct it where its needed, rather than treating the tank has a whole.

Keep the faith mate 🙏.

Thank you John, some very helpful stuff there!
😂 yes this is no trick! But I’m not feeling much of a treat either!

So do some plant kinda slow in growth, only so many times you can cut a stem plant and the bottom still grow again?

I work away in the week at the minute so my fiancé doses the tank for me. Which means instead of seeing it daily I see it after 5 days so I see more results I guess as the eye detects changes better when there larger!

So I just added those from a 1-2 grow pot last week and they were pretty ropey, might have been older stock, but they are looking a lot better in that pic then a week ago thankfully.

I could start increasing the light up to those levels with one tube only, I’ll up it an extra hour each week you think? Or just go from 5 to 7?

Well exactly, I thought by going EI it would rule out the ferts mostly.

I know liquid carbon isn’t actually co2 and somewhat of a second best solution, I need to get my head into the books on CO2, I have a couple regs and solenoids but need to look at what they are for bottle wise or just buy a kit and go from there but trying to reduce my issues before I go adding another variable I gues

Interesting thought RE carbo and shrimp.
Part of my issue is measuring 5ml or less in those bottles. I might dilute it does 50% to make it easier to measure as the first increment is 10ml.
I want to make it simple for my very patient partner!

That or a dosing machine!


Thanks for the input! Much appreciated

 

[andy198712]

The monty Carlo just seems to be shrinking as I trim off the older stuff that has algae on it, new small leaves are coming but very slowly

 

[andy198712]

And what I believe is BBA on the Anubis plants.
Also the fungi on the wood which is a result of me wire brushing off all the rotten outer layer with BBA on.
It is an old bit of bog wood to be fair!

 

[andy198712]

And finally the algae you can see forming on the older leaves from the slow growth, this is what used to cover the right hand foreground and grew like the clappers, I was constantly trimming it but now it’s very slow and hardly grows, this is all I have left of it after I got fed up with the algae and pulled it out

 

[John q]

I could start increasing the light up to those levels with one tube only, I’ll up it an extra hour each week you think? Or just go from 5 to 7?

Yeah I'd take it up slowly and see if you notice any positive or negative effects. Upping the light duration when you're battling bba is probably a risky strategy but I just don't feel 5hrs is enough for healthy plant growth.

I want to make it simple for my very patient partner

Definitely get that mate, maybe you could measure the carbo out into a known 5ml vessel like a teaspoon or bottle top. I think long term you'd benefit from buying a srynge so you can target the carbo directly at the bba, would also help your partner measure doses when you're not around.

Only other thing I'd suggest is removing those leaves that are badly affected with bba and try Upping the water change amount to 50%, might also be worth doing filter maintenance more regularly. I do the blue and white pre filter sponges one week and then the black sponge the following week.

 

[G H Nelson]

One thing you can do is reduce your floaters as these will suck a load of fertilizers out the water column!
Add some Epsom Salt...fast growing stems will appreciate it!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but I just don't feel 5hrs is enough for healthy plant growth.

<"Nor do I">.

but the floating plants still seems to double in amount each week, probably removing about A5 size of plants each week?! i

Having a floating plant is really useful, because they have:

• Access to atmospheric CO2 (<"~ 413 ppm">) and
• first use of the light and
• they are growing well...........

It makes it very likely that it is a light intensity, and/or duration, issue (or CO2 level), rather than a <"mineral nutrient one">.

cheers Darrel

 

[ceg4048]

And finally the algae you can see forming on the older leaves from the slow growth, this is what used to cover the right hand foreground and grew like the clappers, I was constantly trimming it but now it’s very slow and hardly grows, this is all I have left of it after I got fed up with the algae and pulled it out

BBA is a CO2 related algae. It is NOT related to nutrients.
Either increase the amount of Excel dosing or reduce the light intensity.

Cheers,

 

[andy198712]

Yeah I'd take it up slowly and see if you notice any positive or negative effects. Upping the light duration when you're battling bba is probably a risky strategy but I just don't feel 5hrs is enough for healthy plant growth.

Definitely get that mate, maybe you could measure the carbo out into a known 5ml vessel like a teaspoon or bottle top. I think long term you'd benefit from buying a srynge so you can target the carbo directly at the bba, would also help your partner measure doses when you're not around.

Only other thing I'd suggest is removing those leaves that are badly affected with bba and try Upping the water change amount to 50%, might also be worth doing filter maintenance more regularly. I do the blue and white pre filter sponges one week and then the black sponge the following week.

Thanks!
I’ll start increasing the light duration half an hour each week say.

I’ve found some twin neck bottles that have a 5ml measure on them which I’ll try. Will allow me to be more accurate then the current “half way between the 10 and the bottom” method

I could up the water change and up the filter cleaning, the filter isn’t too bad after a month, quick wash of the course sponges and replace the floss and it’s good to go!

 

[andy198712]

One thing you can do is reduce your floaters as these will suck a load of fertilizers out the water column!
Add some Epsom Salt...fast growing stems will appreciate it!

Yeah I might make the floater ring smaller, they do spread like crazy!
I’ll look into the Epsom salt, see if I can find some (a lot of adverts were for baths ect and I’d be worried it wasn’t pure)

 

[andy198712]

Hi all,

<"Nor do I">.

Having a floating plant is really useful, because they have:

• Access to atmospheric CO2 (<"~ 413 ppm">) and
• first use of the light and
• they are growing well...........

It makes it very likely that it is a light intensity, and/or duration, issue (or CO2 level), rather than a <"mineral nutrient one">.

cheers Darrel

Good link thank you!

Yes I was thinking the other day how are the floaters spreading like crazy, what do they have that my other plants don’t. And it’s CO2 isn’t it?!
But I guess my only way to increase CO2 when I don’t have gas injection is more liquid carbon, but is that safe?

Cheers

 

[andy198712]

BBA is a CO2 related algae. It is NOT related to nutrients.
Either increase the amount of Excel dosing or reduce the light intensity.

Cheers,

Hi,

May be a silly question but when you say excel do you just mean liquid carbon or that specific liquid carbon?
I think I could reduce the light intensity much more short of taping up half the light maybe with electrical tape every other inch?!

Am I right in saying it’s as much about intensity as it duration?

Thanks for the help!

Andy

 

[erwin123]

given that

Hi,

May be a silly question but when you say excel do you just mean liquid carbon or that specific liquid carbon?
I think I could reduce the light intensity much more short of taping up half the light maybe with electrical tape every other inch?!

Am I right in saying it’s as much about intensity as it duration?

Thanks for the help!

Andy

a single 14w LED for a 200 litre tank shouldn't be 'too much light'?

 

[andy198712]

given that


a single 14w LED for a 200 litre tank shouldn't be 'too much light'?

That was my thoughts, and it comes with two tubes, and clips for more, but who knows?!

AquaEl Opti Set 200 Aquarium & Cabinet

200l aquarium and cabinet for all aquarium types Includes LED lighting and Opti Glass polished edges Measures at 101 x 41 x 136cm

www.swelluk.com

That’s it

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

a single 14w LED for a 200 litre tank shouldn't be 'too much light'?

Too little would be my guess as well, now that ambient light levels are low. Others will differ in their opinion, but I'd turn the light to full intensity and run it for at least eight hours.

I think I could reduce the light intensity much more short of taping up half the light maybe with electrical tape every other inch?!

Am I right in saying it’s as much about intensity as it duration?

Yes, you are right, you need light intensity to exceed <"light compensation point (LCP)">. We don't have LCP values for the plants we grow, but for some plants light always needs to be <"turned up to eleven">.

Yes I was thinking the other day how are the floaters spreading like crazy, what do they have that my other plants don’t. And it’s CO2 isn’t it?!

It certainly is CO2, but it could also be light (<"PAR">).

I take <"PAR out of the equation"> by always running my <"lights both "bright" and on a long day">. If I have a lot of PAR I just have more plant mass, so it doesn't matter how intense the light was at the water's surface the bottoms of my tanks are always <"dark and gloomy places">.

cheers Darrel

 

[andy198712]

Hi all,

Too little would be my guess as well, now that ambient light levels are low. Others will differ in their opinion, but I'd turn the light to full intensity and run it for at least eight hours.

Yes, you are right, you need light intensity to exceed <"light compensation point (LCP)">. We don't have LCP values for the plants we grow, but for some plants light always needs to be <"turned up to eleven">.

It certainly is CO2, but it could also be light (<"PAR">).

I take <"PAR out of the equation"> by always running my <"lights both "bright" and on a long day">. If I have a lot of PAR I just have more plant mass, so it doesn't matter how intense the light was at the water's surface the bottoms of my tanks are always <"dark and gloomy places">.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for the reply, the links were helpful.
And I guess the algae I have mostly is BBA which is CO2 related not light related it’s fair to say?
So upping the seems my next course of action after this week. Having started EI dosing now