Help and tips with algae and plants growth

[psycho91-1]

Hi everyone,
Sorry in advance for the length of this post, but I really need some help and suggestions.
I’m writing this for a friend, who doesn’t speak English. We’re from Italy.
And we need help for his tank (his very first one). He's far away from me so I can't really follow it directly, not that I'd be more useful, I'm not a newbie but really don't understand many things.

The tank is running from last February 15th. It’s 80x40x36h cm. ADA Amazonia, both normal and powder (he used too much of it), with Power Sand Special and Tourmaline BC, all bought in 2018 (I’m writing the year because I'm reading on the web that quality control on recent new Amazonia is bad… it melts very soon and has too much PO4 absorption). Led fixture ADA Solar RGB and ADA Superjet filter ES-600 right now running on bamboo charcoal after carbon and bio rio. CO2 with external in-line glass diffuser.
Fertilization is ADA, it started with just Brighty K, Mineral, Nitrogen and Iron (following the protocol), recently he also bought Phyton Git Green Gain and Green bacter.
RO water with salts DRAK Duradrakon KH and Duradrakon GH, bioconditioner (not using for some months now) DRAK Blackdrakon. Water changes mostly once a week, mostly 25L with KH 2 and GH 7, sometime every three/four weeks he changes 50L.

There are 20 Danio Margaritatus and 15 Amano shrimps in the tank.
Twinstar Nano, but right now it's been off after the first months on.
Curiosity, he doses fertilizers with a timer dosing pump.

He's even using (for a month now) an Eheim External UV inline Lamp.

It started with Rotala Green, Alternanthera reineckii mini, Rotala indica (ex bonsai) and Eleocharis parvula.
Eleocharis never really spread, Rotala indica and green always had good growth, Alternanthera had nice growth initially, but was finally attacked by algae when a stasis occurred. We honestly don’t know where algae came from, the shop (which only sells aquatic plants) where he took his plants (most of it in cups anyway) is really good, and specialised, the best in Italy I'd say and I never had any issue with them, so I’d exclude algae were from the plants.

It all ended up in being infested with filamentous algae in May. Probably for some direct solar light, Solar RGB too much close (he was using it at 25cm) and most of all too much soil used in the tank. Helped by the owner of the shop, he used Protalon (I don’t know much more, never used this product), cut and cleaned all plants in someway, and trough some process he did get rid of filamentous algae. He fixed something on fertilization etc. and all went fine.

He later replaced Rotala Green with some species of Rotala rotundifolia, classic one, and Orange and Colorata. Removed Alternanthera reineckii mini and cut all the Eleocharis (just few spots remained, growing back). Leaving only Rotala indica, adding Lobelia cardinalis first, some Pogostemon heiferi. And lately, two weeks ago, he added tropica cups of Micranthemum Montecarlo, after initial melting it’s now doing better though it doesn't grow that much yet. And on a rock he has Vesicularia ferriei (weeping moss).

Running right now on Bright K Mineral and Nitrogen at 4ml per day. Iron is on 1-2ml. He’s using now (two weeks) Phyton Git and Green bacter, on protocol. And Solar RGB is right now at 45cm from water.
KH is 2 and GH is 7, pH at 6.7-6.9. CO2 is like 140 bubble per minute during 8h of light.
NO3 2.5, PO4 0.1. Fe is never more than 0. Sometime found at 0.1.

Pearling is good but not great. A bit on Rotalas, better on Lobelia. But not massive pearling, and it occurs only after 6-7 hours of photoperiod. Colours aren't that great either.

On Monday, he found some new algae on plants again, especially on Montecarlo and a bit on moss (you can find it on a specific picture below)

So he’s now worried about it, fearing a new infestation.
So what to do? He’s been really careful last months, so he’s really “sad” to see algae again.
Is it the soil? Honestly he used too much soil, we know that. But what to do? How to improve pearling?

All is growing fine, but the foreground plants never grew well, Montecarlo is doing better but not that great (it seems very much of it but he bought 12 cups, so mostly that’s why the high quantity) but Eleocharis and even Hemianthus in the summer, never grew and finally even Hemianthus melted without growing.

And what about colours? They aren't that great.

Sorry for my English, thank you in advance.

Pictures below (if I post it right!)

 

[Edvet]

First plants look relatively healthy, that's good.
Algae spores are everywhere, you can't not introduce algae in a tank and not get it. It's always a balance thing. Algea are plants too, just very efficient plants.
Filamentous algea :http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
Just some basics we always work with (or at least most of us): when using CO2 there are a few things absolutely neccesary: you need very good flow to get the CO2 everywhere ( all the plants everywhere in the tank have to be moving gently in the flow), therefore we aim to get 10 times the tank volume flowing per hour. The amount of CO2 is directly correlated to the amount of light you are using, most often we use to little CO2 for the amount of light ( it's easy to crank up the light, it's very hard to crank up the amount of CO2).
Doing a pH profile ( measuring pH of the tank every hour, preferably with an electronic device) from before lights on till lights out will tell us much about how you are using CO2. It needs to be high BEFORE lights go on ( a pH drop of one full point is good) and stay at that level till an hour before lights out. Then it should drop.
Usually with problems we like the light not to be on longer then 5/6 hours.
For now it looks 1) to little CO2, 2) to long light, 3) not enough flow , 4)waterchanges: at least 50% per week 5) ferts:i don't know all these, EI is a cheap and easy solution.

 

[Edvet]

Som extra's:
Flow: don't know this filter capacity, but we tend to advice to take out a lot of filtermedia, your plants and soil are your best filter, the filter itself is mostly for flow
Pearling: don't stare to much at that, doesn't mean a whole lot healthwise
If the tank get;s hit by direct sunlight, or if it is in a very light room, this will effect the plants too. You will need to take that into the measures ( block daylight, have artificial light coincide with daylight)
(I get the slight feeling that your friend may have thought if i buy the very best ( expensive) stuff the tank should be a succes. It never is, it will always be a learning curve where you have to adapt to the situation and work to get results. The fact some people make it look easy is more often because they have put in the hours to get experience and know the pittfalls and how to avoid them)

 

[psycho91-1]

Thanks for the reply.
Great, I'll tell him to do a pH profile. Just to be sure, when you say one full point drop, you mean not decimal, right? Like, for example, not from 6.9 to 6.8 but 6.9 to 5.9? Am I correct?

About light period, it's 8 hours. Too much on his condition? Should I tell him 5-6 hours?

Again about CO2 could it be the inline diffuser? I think the filter has a good flow (from videos my friend send me, but may be wrong), but maybe being co2 inflow could it go a bit lost with oxygenation of water surface's movement?

About ferts, my friend isn't practical with chemistry and he really prefer something "ready for use" and he opted for ADA (though personally I don't like too much ADA protocol) so I think it's out of the question to use EI ferts.

I'll tell him to do 50% water changes per week.

 

[Edvet]

Do the 5/6 hours and the pH profile ( 1 full point indeed). See if he can get a report from the watercompany about his tap water, not sure RO is usefull ( it's very rarely needed for plants). Just doing big waterchanges is easy when you can use tap water.
Oh and just remove the algea as much as possible.

 

[psycho91-1]

To add about second post.
Thanks again! I really appreciate your answers!
Yes, he exactly thought that taking most expensive stuff would help him to succeed (about it we had a little disagreement, but he opted anyway to go like this).

About the flow again, I was exactly thinking (when I read about your flow suggestions) to make him reduce internal materials to make it better.

About direct sunlight he has already taken precautions and he covers the aquarium when lights are out and sun is in, to avoid any issue. But in first months it has been an issue unfortunately, now solved (it seems)

 

[psycho91-1]

Do the 5/6 hours and the pH profile ( 1 full point indeed). See if he can get a report from the watercompany about his tap water, not sure RO is usefull ( it's very rarely needed for plants). Just doing big waterchanges is easy when you can use tap water.
Oh and just remove the algea as much as possible.

Ok will ask for a direct report from water company. Though here in Italy water is always very hard, high KH and GH (from site of the company, and analysis with tests, it's a very hard water). That's why he has opted for reconstructing RO with salt, instead of using tap water. He was using tap water in first month though.

 

[Edvet]

For almost all plants this shouldn''t be a problem, In any case waterchanges are more important than hardness.

 

[psycho91-1]

Yes of course, but he has 20 Danio margaritatus, and they live in softer water, that's why he needs to keep it this way.
Plus ADA Amazonia is suggested to be "used" with soft water to not saturate the soil too quickly otherwise it melts, at least for what the company suggest and what I read from other people experiences. Me too, when I was using Amazonia soil, used to avoid hard water to not saturate it.

 

[Edvet]

Sorry, no experience with soils, i always use riversand.

 

[Matt @ ScapeEasy]

How long before the lights come on does your friend have the CO2 turn on?

 

[psycho91-1]

If I remember correctly, 10 minutes before lights go on

 

[Edvet]

That''s probably not good, but the pH profile will tell us.

 

[psycho91-1]

Unfortunately, tough I'm pushing him, he still didn't do any pH profile...

 

[Edvet]

That will be more important than the fanciest ADA piece of gear for now.

 

[azawaza]

That will be more important than the fanciest ADA piece of gear for now.

I was guilty of the ‘fancy ADA’ fad once. Now it’s what ever works. More knowledge = better control

 

[psycho91-1]

I was guilty of the ‘fancy ADA’ fad once. Now it’s what ever works. More knowledge = better control

Oh I agree guys... he wouldn't even listen to me to buy other and more functional products

by the way I got him at least to measure the pH before lights go on, and in the middle and at the end of the photo-period.
It seems to be just 0.1 of pH drop.

I really think CO2 is dispersed somehow, cause he's dosing it very much (nearly 3 bubbles per second, in my experience honestly, using very similar water to his, with 2-3 bubbles per second, I always had/have 0.8-0.9 pH drop easily!)
Could it be the inline diffuser? CO2 goes out with outline water so it goes easily in the surface and easily disperses

 

[Edvet]

We try to aim at the full point drop and this has to happen BEFORE lights go on. Only getting 0,1 drop only works if the lighting is low (which might not be the case)
Getting the CO2 dissolved in an efficient way is a whole different world ( no leaks, good pressure, efficient dissolving system or good reactor) and the next thing is getting it into the water and distributing it throughout the whole tank.
(efficient systems can get the drop in 1-2 hours max)

 

[psycho91-1]

Of course.
So basically do you suggest to start CO2 injection 1-2 hour before lights so there'll be enough CO2 in the water when lights go on?

 

[Edvet]

At least 1-2 hours, lowest point should coincede with lights on.
Remember the amount of light drives the need for CO2.