• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

help needed before abandoning ship

Reuben

Member
Thread starter
Joined
17 Feb 2013
Messages
179
Just for the record, the above technique worked very well. When I returned - after two weeks of no light, ferts, co2 or fish food - all the fish looked exactly the same as when I left. Most of the plants were fine, the faster growing ones had turned a whitish colour. Anubias actually looked a lot better!

One thing, I saw snails for the first time in the subsequent days, presumable due to the increased dead leaves while I was away. Now seem to have disappeared again.

I would recommend this as an option for anyone going away- unless you can get hold of a competent caretaker.
Thanks.
 

petn

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2014
Messages
41
That is all very interesting, can't understand that. I lost my light on one tank recently and after four days when I managed to fixe it st.reopens was white like a wall. Why was that? I'm glad u found all fine and it worked out though. Will need to go trough it too in the summer.Thanks for sharing P

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
 

Reuben

Member
Thread starter
Joined
17 Feb 2013
Messages
179
That is all very interesting, can't understand that. I lost my light on one tank recently and after four days when I managed to fixe it st.reopens was white like a wall. Why was that? I'm glad u found all fine and it worked out though. Will need to go trough it too in the summer.Thanks for sharing P
Yes S.reopens did look very pasty upon return. Probably 40% of the leaves melted too. Once I sorted the Co2 out , then upped the lights it regrew really fast and is now doing very well . I'm sure it would be the same for you assuming your aquarium is Co2 injected?


Klingons worshiping at The Temple of Megawatt please take note.
:lol::lol:

It did make me think about doing a larger aquarium with just tonnes of anubias and a few ferns. Really low light, low tech, leaf litter and such. Anubias really are a low light plant I think...
 

petn

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2014
Messages
41
Yes co2 injected.I took the repens out though,never thought it will recover again, boo on me for that.i will do just a week in the summer, good to know how to approach it. Thanking you.P

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
It did make me think about doing a larger aquarium with just tonnes of anubias and a few ferns. Really low light, low tech, leaf litter and such. Anubias really are a low light plant I think...
Yes, there is no such thing as a high light plant but there definitely are low light plants. Anubias is one of those, and is a champion of low light. Ferns also can practically live in the dark. Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting.

Cheers,
 

Reuben

Member
Thread starter
Joined
17 Feb 2013
Messages
179
Yes, there is no such thing as a high light plant but there definitely are low light plants. Anubias is one of those, and is a champion of low light. Ferns also can practically live in the dark. Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting.

Cheers,

Have you done a low tech tank before? I think in some ways I might prefer this approach, less kerfuffle! (which might help justify having a larger tank...) One thing I like about the high tech is the large water changes - not doing them - but the benefit of clean water is something that makes a lot of sense to my mind at least!

Occasionally read that big water changes in low tech can cause 'problems'. What's your view on this. I don't really see why it would be a problem, and surely it would be a bonus for the fish?
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Yes, I've done low tech, but it's too boring for me. In any case using low light doesn't mean you have to use non-CO2. Where is that written? People use too much light in the first place, which is the beginning of all their woes.

Water changes when the lights are on can cause issues due to rapid or cyclic changes in the CO2 content. That assumes the replacement water is high in CO2, such as with tap water. If the replacement water is RO, or, rainwater, or has otherwise been de-gassed then it's not too much of a problem.

One has to consider what it means for water to be "clean". From our perspective, clean means free from organic waste. In a high tech tank the organic waste buildup is rapid and unavoidable, so the water has to be changed frequently. In a non-CO2 tank the buildup is very slow, and the rate of organic waste production is near enough to the rate of breakdown and recycling of the waste so that the water stays clean.

Cheers,
 

parotet

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2013
Messages
1,695
Location
Valencia, Spain
Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting

Good to know this... I got a tank with Anubias and Java fern Trident, but also with other fast growing stem species. I have improved the flow with a spraybar, some days ago with a Koralia nano 900, I worked on my ph profile, I got a CO2 atomizer (I cannot count the bubbles)... but while all the species in the tank do well (I am even growing a carpet on the foreground), Java fern and Anubias old leaves have always some thread algae (Anubias a bit of GSA) I cannot get rid of.
In my mind two strategies to face this problem:

1. less light (I got 2x24w T5 for 65 liters, there were 35 cm above the tank, since this morning they are higher, 43 cm), so adapt the light level to low light plants. Bad luck for fast growers: Limnophila aromatica, Rotala rotundifolia and Proserpinaca palustris won't turn red.
2. More nutrients. I am dosing standard EI but I want to double the dose and see if it helps.

If i doesn't work I will just purchase more Otos and make them happy ;)

Jordi
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Yes, that's a good move. Don't see why it's bad luck for any plant to suffer less inbound photon torpedoes. They'll just slow the growth rate is all. Just remove the affected leaves and the Anubia swill grow new ones, which hopefully will be cleaner. Another trick, if the aquascape allows would be to move them to a more shaded area under taller plants, for example.

Cheers,
 

Reuben

Member
Thread starter
Joined
17 Feb 2013
Messages
179
In any case using low light doesn't mean you have to use non-CO2. Where is that written?

But if I do a 'Low tech' setup in the sense i keep the lighting levels low and use simple low light plants would there be any point in me adding Co2? I think that's why Iassume Low tech/light means no Co2 at all.
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
'Low tech' or 'high tech' is not defined by how much light is being used. The amount of light is not relevant. As you say, 'low tech' by definition means that CO2 is not enriched. Similarly, 'high tech' by definition describes a tank who's CO2 is being enriched. That can be by gas injection or by gluteraldehyde products such as Excel or Easycarbo.

Of course, since there is a relationship between the plant's need for CO2/nutrients as the lighting is increased, it makes sense that if CO2 is not being enriched then the lighting intensity should be curtailed.

Ironically, high tech tanks suffer more algae and plant health problems than low tech tanks specifically because hobbyists do not pay enough attention to this relationship, and they assume that just because they have CO2 enrichment, the plants are automatically given access to the amounts of CO2 they require.

It's easy to turn on a light switch, or to add more bulbs, but it's very difficult to ensure excellent CO2, and so almost without fail, the light/CO2 relationship is violated in high tech tanks.

When you add CO2 competently, regardless of the lighting level, there is always an improvement in growth rates. Plants can always use more CO2. People get into trouble because of the false assumption that you must add more light if CO2 is being enriched, but this is untrue.

Barr made some PAR measurements at an Amano exhibition some time ago and his data revealed than the tanks, although CO2 enriched, were actually low light.

Cheers,
 

Omegatron

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2013
Messages
132
Location
The Netherlands
Hi, firstly sorry for hijacking!

I was just reading this thread i find it really interesting. Im going on a 2 week holiday in a couple of months aswell. I have a Iwagumi tank. Plants: HC,Glosso, DHG. I got green tetra (simulans) otto's and japonica's. Will my tank be ok aswell if i leave the lights and Co2 off for the time that im away? Or is this different with the kind of plants someone has?

I wanted to ask a friend to do maintanance and feeding but if the above is safe i rather do that. Also, when im back home how much hours of light should i start with? i normally have a 8 hour photoperiod.

Thanks!
 

roadmaster

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2009
Messages
1,452
Location
United States
Just out of interest, what's wrong with leaving the lights and Co2 on, but just reducing the "on" time?


With light's and CO2 on,,Who will feed the plant's?
 

Sacha

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2014
Messages
992
Location
London
Well if we reduce the on time, and give a 7x dose of EI the two days before going on holiday, surely the plants won't run out...?
 

roadmaster

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2009
Messages
1,452
Location
United States
Well if we reduce the on time, and give a 7x dose of EI the two days before going on holiday, surely the plants won't run out...?

Perhap's this would work in plant only tank's??
I think from fish/ shrimp perspective, the sudden increase in Total dissolved solid's at dose suggested could maybe have negative effect depending on species. Some more sensitve than other's.
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
I wanted to ask a friend to do maintanance and feeding but if the above is safe i rather do that.
Hi, yeah definitely do the above. Glosso and other carpet plants, being smaller, and therefore having less food storage capability might take a little bit more of a hit in terms of weight loss, they recover when you return and add the CO2/nutrition.

Also, when im back home how much hours of light should i start with? i normally have a 8 hour photoperiod.
I suggest that you return to high CO2 but to limit the lighting intensity to half and photoperiod to maybe a few hours and to gradually build up over a week or two. It's easy for the plants to put back on the weight they lost if you feed them.

Cheers,
 

Omegatron

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2013
Messages
132
Location
The Netherlands
Hi, yeah definitely do the above. Glosso and other carpet plants, being smaller, and therefore having less food storage capability might take a little bit more of a hit in terms of weight loss, they recover when you return and add the CO2/nutrition.


I suggest that you return to high CO2 but to limit the lighting intensity to half and photoperiod to maybe a few hours and to gradually build up over a week or two. It's easy for the plants to put back on the weight they lost if you feed them.

Cheers,

Thanks for the advise. When you talk about weight loss what do you mean with that? Im trying to picture what i can expect when comming back from a 2 week holiday.

Also. I have like 30 ish japonica shrimp, 26 green tetra and 12 otto's. No food for 2 weeks for all of these creatures is not bad? Im afraid that the shrimp are gonna start eating the carpet plants like grass leaving me with a plantless tank when i come back haha.

Ow, when my lights are out its not pitch black. The tank is in the living room so there will be light in the room (hardly any direct sunlight on the tank). I dont think this is a problem but maybe important to mention.

Thanks again. And sorry for hijacking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Well, weight loss means that the plants are thinner and that their growth rate is reduced, so there is less tissue mass than before. Shutting down CO2/nutrients/lights means they eat less and produce less food.
I don't see why it should be a problem to not feed fish for two weeks. You might discover that you've been overfeeding in the first place and that the fish are overweight anyway. So the same will happen to fish as to plants. A little weight loss. What's the big deal?
When you turn the lights off and stop feeding the plants and fish start to live like how they would live if they were in their natural habitat. The plants are not being pummeled by megawattage and the fish just have to get over the fact of reduced food. Wild fish don't get fed 3 square meals a day.

I never even think about all that. What I think about is that it's a lot easier to put the weight back on that to have the tank spiral out of control while I'm gone and to have to clean up the mess. That can happen so easily, if a CO2 tank is left unattended, or worse if some clueless person is left in charge.

Cheers,
 
Top