Help! plant deficiency or toxicity ? ( new pics)

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by Emilio, 27 Feb 2017.

  1. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    hello everyone,
    as the title suggests I'm not sure whats wrong with my mont carlo, its been carpeting well however i have noticed some deficiency or something wrong. some leaves don't appear healthy.
    leaves seem to be almost transparent around the outside and lighter in the middle , as the photos below show.
    the flow is very good.
    its been Set up for almost a month now


    Tank size
    : mini s (13 litres or so)
    Lighting : high
    CO2 : 1 bps
    Ferts : Tropica specialised and premium 1 pump each on different days
    substrate: tropica soil , ada power sand and additives
    water :
    treated tap water

    pictures:
    image1.JPG


    notice the leaves on the left
    image2.JPG



    image3.JPG

    also there is some hemianthus micranthemoides in the back which seems to have similar leaves which are a little pale and are not a very lush green colour.
    any help apprenticed
    thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  2. roadmaster

    roadmaster Member

    Messages:
    1,432
    Location:
    United States
    Might try reducing high lighting(intensity, hours) and increasing CO2 a bit more to 2 or 3 bps?
    Maybe also try two pumps of the fertilizer solution at dosing time.
    Would see what this did over two week's
    Me thinks under high lighting ,plant mass may have increased to point where what was once good as far as nutrient 's go, may need bumped up along with CO2.
     
  3. Daveslaney

    Daveslaney Member

    Messages:
    845
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Agree.Abit of trial and error really.But if your light intensity is high your ferts and co2 need to be high to create a balance.
     
  4. Worshiper

    Worshiper Member

    Messages:
    198
    I had the same problem with MC..I reckon you need to up your CO2 injection-- BPS may not be the best indicator of how much Co2 you are putting in, what does your DC say?

    Also check your flow/distribution across the lower level of the tank. best case scenario-- reduce your lighting and begin from there.. hope this helps
     
  5. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    hello, thanks for the replies.
    ferts are high as tropica recommends doing 5 pumps per 50litres a week
    i have been dosing much more.
    co2 was 2bps until amano shrimp where 4 days ago,
    however i will try up the co2 today,
    and reduce the lights

    but
    do you guys think there could be a possibility that its a micronutrients toxicity?

    cheers
     
  6. Worshiper

    Worshiper Member

    Messages:
    198
    Hi Emilio, I am not sure about that.. TBH i feel it's just maintaining the balance like Daveslaney said above.. your light may be too high for the Co2 going in... what colour is your drop checker??
     
  7. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    sorry forgot to say,
    i don't use a dc
     
  8. Worshiper

    Worshiper Member

    Messages:
    198
    Emilio: IMHO you need one to know how much of Co2 is in the water column.
    Read the tuts on the Co2 section. It will help you understand more about Co2, DCs etc.
    Ive learnt sooo much from the amazin ppl on UKAPS which has helped me in the hobby! (I am still learning :D).
     
  9. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    yes i agree i have learnt a lot from ukaps my self,
    however i don't really like to use DCs, i find them unreliable i prefer to use my ph to understand if there is a adequate co2 supply.
    iv bumped up the co2 today and decreased light intensity slightly.
    hopefully there will be some improvement.
    thanks
     
    Worshiper likes this.
  10. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    so decided to go ahead and double ferts like suggested,
    also does anyone know the symptoms of some toxicities ,can't seem to find any online .
    cheers
     
  11. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    some new picture of the hemianthus micranthemoides, have been dosing double the ferts for a few days now and haven't seen improvement ,there getting worst co2 has been bumped up to 3 bps gradualy.
    as you can see the leaves appear unhealthy
    hm1.jpg hm2.jpg hm3.jpg hm4.jpg hm5.jpg
     
  12. ian_m

    ian_m Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Eastleigh
    There are no symptoms of toxicities as you have found, as the ferts in levels you might get in your tank are non toxic.

    Due to a pump timer failure I ran with 400ppm NO3 and 80ppm PO4 for a week. Fish carried on scoffing & swimming and being fish, no change to their behaviour. Plants carried on growing. No algae. Just really a waste of ferts for absolutely no benefit to the plants.

    So basically you cannot realistically overload ferts to cause plant (and fish issues).
     
  13. ian_m

    ian_m Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Eastleigh
    From your pictures I would say lack of Mg or Fe is your problem. You need to ascertain if your Tropica is supplying enough Mg or Fe.

    You might find the Fe is reacting with substrate and precipitating out.

    Adding Mg is easy, just add Epsom salts (available from Ebay and chemist).
     
  14. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    8,033
    Location:
    nr Bath
    Hi all,
    Would be my guess. The new leaves are chlorotic, and that is usually a problem with iron.

    cheers Darrel
     
  15. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    sorry for the silly questions but how do i find out if the fe is reacting with the substrate , and how do i sort the problem out,

    thanks
     
  16. xim

    xim Member

    Messages:
    513
    1 pump equals 1.2 ml. And according to Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid, the weigh of 1.2 ml. is 1.248 grams.

    Each 1.248 grams of Specialised or Premium contains 0.8736 mg of Fe, which is 0.0672 PPM for 13 litres.
    Dosing 0.0672 PPM of Fe daily is right in the EI ballpark for Micros. And your current plant mass is not even that large.

    Now you've doubled the dosage to 0.1344 PPM of Fe daily for a few days without noticeable improvement.
    Although you may have to wait for about one or two weeks to be sure but I'm more leaning toward magnesium deficiency or something else.
    Because the chelators Tropica uses are DTPA and HEEDTA which are quite strong.
     
    Last edited: 3 Mar 2017
  17. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    So what do you guys advise i do, dose Fe , does Mg,?
    How do i know if theres a precipitation issue and how do i solve it?
    My tapwater is hard, and i do almost daily water top offs,
    Could this be a issue should i try lower the ph ?

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: 3 Mar 2017
  18. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    8,033
    Location:
    nr Bath
    Hi all,
    Definitely could be magnesium, because the water is hard (calcium (Ca) rich) and a high level of calcium ions can effect the uptake of both Mg and Fe. Adding magnesium won't hurt in any case.

    I still think that iron is the most likely deficiency, just because the deficiencies, that cause chlorosis, are nitrogen (N), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg) and iron (Fe), and the first three are mobile within the plant and effect old leaves first, but iron isn't mobile and effects new leaves.

    cheers Darrel
     
  19. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    Ok thanks everyone , will buy some epsom salt tomorrow from boots.
    but if Fe is precipitating out , then wouldn't adding more iron not make a difference.
    if this is the case what do i do.
    something must be causing nutrients uptake difficuties.

    thanks
     
    Last edited: 4 Mar 2017
  20. Emilio

    Emilio Newly Registered

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    london
    forgot to mention that on the new growth of the hemianthus micranthemoides the stem (the tip) seems flimsy, it doesn't stay upright and is bent.
     

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