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Help! plant deficiency or toxicity ? ( new pics)

Emilio

Seedling
Joined
21 Dec 2016
Messages
24
Location
london
hello everyone,
as the title suggests I'm not sure whats wrong with my mont carlo, its been carpeting well however i have noticed some deficiency or something wrong. some leaves don't appear healthy.
leaves seem to be almost transparent around the outside and lighter in the middle , as the photos below show.
the flow is very good.
its been Set up for almost a month now


Tank size
: mini s (13 litres or so)
Lighting : high
CO2 : 1 bps
Ferts : Tropica specialised and premium 1 pump each on different days
substrate: tropica soil , ada power sand and additives
water :
treated tap water

pictures:
image1.JPG



notice the leaves on the left
image2.JPG




image3.JPG


also there is some hemianthus micranthemoides in the back which seems to have similar leaves which are a little pale and are not a very lush green colour.
any help apprenticed
thanks
 

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roadmaster

Member
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18 Oct 2009
Messages
1,451
Location
United States
Might try reducing high lighting(intensity, hours) and increasing CO2 a bit more to 2 or 3 bps?
Maybe also try two pumps of the fertilizer solution at dosing time.
Would see what this did over two week's
Me thinks under high lighting ,plant mass may have increased to point where what was once good as far as nutrient 's go, may need bumped up along with CO2.
 

Daveslaney

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21 May 2016
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Nottinghamshire
Agree.Abit of trial and error really.But if your light intensity is high your ferts and co2 need to be high to create a balance.
 

Worshiper

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Joined
16 Aug 2013
Messages
233
I had the same problem with MC..I reckon you need to up your CO2 injection-- BPS may not be the best indicator of how much Co2 you are putting in, what does your DC say?

Also check your flow/distribution across the lower level of the tank. best case scenario-- reduce your lighting and begin from there.. hope this helps
 

Emilio

Seedling
Thread starter
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21 Dec 2016
Messages
24
Location
london
hello, thanks for the replies.
ferts are high as tropica recommends doing 5 pumps per 50litres a week
i have been dosing much more.
co2 was 2bps until amano shrimp where 4 days ago,
however i will try up the co2 today,
and reduce the lights

but
do you guys think there could be a possibility that its a micronutrients toxicity?

cheers
 

Worshiper

Member
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16 Aug 2013
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233
Hi Emilio, I am not sure about that.. TBH i feel it's just maintaining the balance like Daveslaney said above.. your light may be too high for the Co2 going in... what colour is your drop checker??
 

Worshiper

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2013
Messages
233
Emilio: IMHO you need one to know how much of Co2 is in the water column.
Read the tuts on the Co2 section. It will help you understand more about Co2, DCs etc.
Ive learnt sooo much from the amazin ppl on UKAPS which has helped me in the hobby! (I am still learning :D).
 

Emilio

Seedling
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21 Dec 2016
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Location
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yes i agree i have learnt a lot from ukaps my self,
however i don't really like to use DCs, i find them unreliable i prefer to use my ph to understand if there is a adequate co2 supply.
iv bumped up the co2 today and decreased light intensity slightly.
hopefully there will be some improvement.
thanks
 

Emilio

Seedling
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21 Dec 2016
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so decided to go ahead and double ferts like suggested,
also does anyone know the symptoms of some toxicities ,can't seem to find any online .
cheers
 

Emilio

Seedling
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21 Dec 2016
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Location
london
some new picture of the hemianthus micranthemoides, have been dosing double the ferts for a few days now and haven't seen improvement ,there getting worst co2 has been bumped up to 3 bps gradualy.
as you can see the leaves appear unhealthy
hm1.jpg
hm2.jpg
hm3.jpg
hm4.jpg
hm5.jpg
 

ian_m

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also does anyone know the symptoms of some toxicities ,can't seem to find any online
There are no symptoms of toxicities as you have found, as the ferts in levels you might get in your tank are non toxic.

Due to a pump timer failure I ran with 400ppm NO3 and 80ppm PO4 for a week. Fish carried on scoffing & swimming and being fish, no change to their behaviour. Plants carried on growing. No algae. Just really a waste of ferts for absolutely no benefit to the plants.

So basically you cannot realistically overload ferts to cause plant (and fish issues).
 

ian_m

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From your pictures I would say lack of Mg or Fe is your problem. You need to ascertain if your Tropica is supplying enough Mg or Fe.

You might find the Fe is reacting with substrate and precipitating out.

Adding Mg is easy, just add Epsom salts (available from Ebay and chemist).
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
You might find the Fe is reacting with substrate and precipitating out.
Would be my guess. The new leaves are chlorotic, and that is usually a problem with iron.

cheers Darrel
 

Emilio

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sorry for the silly questions but how do i find out if the fe is reacting with the substrate , and how do i sort the problem out,

thanks
 

xim

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19 Mar 2010
Messages
499
1 pump equals 1.2 ml. And according to Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid, the weigh of 1.2 ml. is 1.248 grams.

Each 1.248 grams of Specialised or Premium contains 0.8736 mg of Fe, which is 0.0672 PPM for 13 litres.
Dosing 0.0672 PPM of Fe daily is right in the EI ballpark for Micros. And your current plant mass is not even that large.

Now you've doubled the dosage to 0.1344 PPM of Fe daily for a few days without noticeable improvement.
Although you may have to wait for about one or two weeks to be sure but I'm more leaning toward magnesium deficiency or something else.
Because the chelators Tropica uses are DTPA and HEEDTA which are quite strong.
 
Last edited:

Emilio

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So what do you guys advise i do, dose Fe , does Mg,?
How do i know if theres a precipitation issue and how do i solve it?
My tapwater is hard, and i do almost daily water top offs,
Could this be a issue should i try lower the ph ?

Cheers
 
Last edited:

dw1305

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Hi all,
Although you may have to wait for about one or two weeks to be sure but I'm more leaning toward magnesium deficiency or something else. Because the chelators Tropica uses are DTPA and HEEDTA which are quite strong.
My tapwater is hard, and i do almost daily water top offs,
Definitely could be magnesium, because the water is hard (calcium (Ca) rich) and a high level of calcium ions can effect the uptake of both Mg and Fe. Adding magnesium won't hurt in any case.

I still think that iron is the most likely deficiency, just because the deficiencies, that cause chlorosis, are nitrogen (N), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg) and iron (Fe), and the first three are mobile within the plant and effect old leaves first, but iron isn't mobile and effects new leaves.

cheers Darrel
 

Emilio

Seedling
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Ok thanks everyone , will buy some epsom salt tomorrow from boots.
but if Fe is precipitating out , then wouldn't adding more iron not make a difference.
if this is the case what do i do.
something must be causing nutrients uptake difficuties.

thanks
 
Last edited:

Emilio

Seedling
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Location
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forgot to mention that on the new growth of the hemianthus micranthemoides the stem (the tip) seems flimsy, it doesn't stay upright and is bent.
 

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