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High Light increase stunting growth ?

eminor

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2021
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784
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France
Hello, am i right if i tell that if the light is high, the nutrients/co2 demand increase so the plant need to make food faster, if there is a dip in one of these, the plant can't make food fast enough and here is the stunt ?

I can't be certain of a thing, there is two school, in one side there is people that say that some plant really need high light to thrive, on the other side, there is people that tell that co2 make plant growth not light. I also read here that if the LCP is reached the plant will grow, slower but will grow.

Let's take few difficult species like rotala walichii, Syngonanthus sp rio and Tuberculatum, I never seen any tank growing them well in low light. For exemple, what is the LCP difference between Rotala rotundifolia and Tuberculatum. I'm confused

Thx so much
 
For exemple, what is the LCP difference between Rotala rotundifolia and Tuberculatum.
I think you will probably struggle to find specific values for the different plant species available to us hobbyists, but simply put, as long a plant is growing then it has reached it's LCP. If a plant is below the threshold, then I imagine you will get general symptoms of light insufficiency like elongated crippled growth, very small leaves, re-absorption and assimilation of old growth etc. This can usually be noted in carpeting plants especially - if they're growing upwards rather than outwards.
 
Yes. My understanding is that if light is high and you don't support with CO2 and nutrients plants suffer and algae flourish.
Thats my understanding - and experience - as well, but it's a very fine line how high you can go in a low-tech tank... too high you definitely will get into trouble if the plants starts to suffer... When I started my so-called lean experiment (low-tech, extremely low dosing) some 9 months ago I slowly increased the light as well. At some point I started to see some BGA in some the very bright areas of the tank...(it was at a time during the summer where I also had some lapses on upkeep). I slowly dialed back the light a bit, performed some manual removal, and it disappeared. The light level in this tank is still considerably higher than my other tank which is more traditionally dosed (still lean'ish) and low light. I wouldn't exactly consider the lean tank high light but its definitely not low... (not very helpful I guess :) ). Trying to manage the Light Compensation Point (LCP) - which I admittedly don't truly understand - is something that would take a lot of trial and error for individual species I think.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Hello, am i right if i tell that if the light is high, the nutrients/co2 demand increase so the plant need to make food faster, if there is a dip in one of these, the plant can't make food fast enough and here is the stunt ?

I can't be certain of a thing, there is two school, in one side there is people that say that some plant really need high light to thrive, on the other side, there is people that tell that co2 make plant growth not light. I also read here that if the LCP is reached the plant will grow, slower but will grow.

Let's take few difficult species like rotala walichii, Syngonanthus sp rio and Tuberculatum, I never seen any tank growing them well in low light. For exemple, what is the LCP difference between Rotala rotundifolia and Tuberculatum. I'm confused

Thx so much

High light doesn’t promote Stunting but high CO2 along with High light can Promote Stunting in plants, as it interfere with the plant nutrient metabolism. The more CO2 you inject under the high light settings, the harder the plant must work to obtain several nutrients, especially if the nutrients are already in a form that require additional energy in order for the plant to use them, it truly hinders the plant physiology. Furthermore, adding more nutrients while trying to balance the High Co2 and High Lights are not entirely going to solve the stunting.

High Light and Low CO2 are not going to promote Algae, it actually helps the plant to grow better and give them better coloration. High Light and High Nutrients on the other hand will certainly promote algae and adding high CO2 is not going to fully prevent that, but will minimize that.
 
High light doesn’t promote Stunting but high CO2 along with High light can Promote Stunting in plants, as it interfere with the plant nutrient metabolism. The more CO2 you inject under the high light settings, the harder the plant must work to obtain several nutrients, especially if the nutrients are already in a form that require additional energy in order for the plant to use them, it truly hinders the plant physiology. Furthermore, adding more nutrients while trying to balance the High Co2 and High Lights are not entirely going to solve the stunting.

High Light and Low CO2 are not going to promote Algae, it actually helps the plant to grow better and give them better coloration. High Light and High Nutrients on the other hand will certainly promote algae and adding high CO2 is not going to fully prevent that, but will minimize that.
I Think i had low CO2 with HIgh Light, Drop was Lime green at start, easy plant like rotala rotundifolia was growing fine but Tuberculatum, ammania, walichii was stunted. I tried High Light and high CO2, the sensitive like tuberculatum and walichii was pearling like crazy. High CO2 drop was almost yellow at start, i still do high co2, tank is a soda.

I also tried High Light, High CO2, EI. Plant are growing fast but sensitive are still stunted, as you described, seems normal.

What is low co2 for you ? I'm so afraid to go too low and get green water, is it possible to get tank without stunted plants ?
 
I Think i had low CO2 with HIgh Light, Drop was Lime green at start, easy plant like rotala rotundifolia was growing fine but Tuberculatum, ammania, walichii was stunted. I tried High Light and high CO2, the sensitive like tuberculatum and walichii was pearling like crazy. High CO2 drop was almost yellow at start, i still do high co2, tank is a soda.

What is low co2 for you ? I'm so afraid to go too low and get green water, is it possible to get tank without stunted plants ?
low co2 for me is in the range of 10-15 ppm and i consider this to be sufficient even with High lights. if you still stunt those listed plants under such scenario, you most likely have Nutrients related issues.

green water has nothing to do with low or no CO2, green water is nutrient related especially to NH3/NH4 and combined with other nutrients in excess.
 
Thx, does genetic play a role, i mean, there must be some plant under the same species that tolerate more than other ?
 
When l see all the ads and recommends for high powered expensive lights ,thinking back to my first CO2 aquarium a few year backon it was lit by two t8 tubes,using APFUK starter kit for EI dosing l was taking a bucketful of cuttings,plants out a .week,which as my only tank then l gave away to a couple of neighbours and the LFS, Most l would class as easy although a couple were labelled medium ,.
What l do remember is the surface soon became covered with Salvinia but the plants continued to grow healthy some punching the surface growing emmersed
 
When l see all the ads and recommends for high powered expensive lights ,thinking back to my first CO2 aquarium a few year backon it was lit by two t8 tubes,using APFUK starter kit for EI dosing l was taking a bucketful of cuttings,plants out a .week,which as my only tank then l gave away to a couple of neighbours and the LFS, Most l would class as easy although a couple were labelled medium ,.
What l do remember is the surface soon became covered with Salvinia but the plants continued to grow healthy some punching the surface growing emmersed
High Light make me stressed, too much work, even if i like challenge, i had more joy when i used low/medium light. Colors were not best in low light but the growth was so healthy. I also remember my father tank which used t8 bulb, it was really not bright, 54w t8 over 55 gallons i think, he had so much healthy plant... I have hard time taking the redpill about light i think
 
My experience with high light (my journal is called "90P High Light" after all :) ) Is that some plants grow faster than others, and the faster growing plants will invariably provide some 'shade' for the slower growing plants that don't need that much light, so there is a balance.

However, as you have pointed out, when the slower growing plants are shaded, they definitely lose some colour. One example would be the H. Lancea 'Araguia' which grows relatively slowly at the substrate level. If exposed to high light (and not too much nitrates), it is a nice coppery red. When heavily shaded, it turns green (as shown in my journal photos).
 
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My experience with high light (my journal is called "90P High Light" after all :) ) Is that some plants grow faster than others, and the faster growing plants will invariably provide some 'shade' for the slower growing plants that don't need that much light, so there is a balance.

However, as you have pointed out, when the slower growing plants are shaded, they definitely lose some colour. One example would be the H. Lancea 'Araguia' which grows relatively slowly at the substrate level. If exposed to high light (and not too much nitrates), it is a nice coppery red. When heavily shaded, it turns green (as shown in my journal photos).
Yes, there is lot of plants like that, ludiwigia glandulosa is one of them, my nephew have her in low light, i barely recognize her. With high light, soft water and EI, i need to trim some species everyday. There are species that grow incredibly fast like myriophyllum aquaticum, i now understand why there have trouble in river etc.

I'm impressed that rotala walichii is not really a high light plant, she grow well in low light, she is only pink near the light of course. I'm trying tuberculatum in low light, funny that in shade there is some shoots
 
I stunted my plants when they ran out if nitrogen... It was easy to tell, red plants were very red and new growth was still in shape, but little.

As fir algae for me it's the change in the temperature that usually causes algae. I have my temp set to 20-23 depending on the season. In the Summer at some point my tank was at 29, I got some algae temporarily... Does temperature affect the light/nutrients in any way? Noone mentioned temperature, so I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of is that any organic waste would decompose quicker...
 
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