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High Nitrates readings

Tanksy

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2018
Messages
223
Location
Cambridgeshire
Hi guys,

About 10 days ago (Feb 12, 2022) I started cycling a 30lt nano tank. I decided to go with the dark start method. So, I added Tropica Aqua Soil Powder, installed the canister filter, filled it with dechlorinated (Seachem Prime) tap water and added Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride. All this time the Seachem Ammonia Alert badge shows below 0.05 ppm of Ammonia, so I bought some API liquid tests to start monitoring the process. Also, I'm topping up with RO water. About 100-150 ml every 2 days. Temperature is 28 C.

On Feb 19 the readings were:
pH: 6
NH3/NH4: 4 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
Added a dosage of Tetra Safe Start.

On Feb 20
pH: 6
NH3/NH4: 4 ppm
NO2: 0 pm
I know that the Seachem Ammonia Alert badge measures free ammonia, while the API tests measure total ammonia. Based on online calculators the free ammonia in the tank would be around 0.0029 ppm. So I added more of Dr Tim's Ammonia.

Today I thought I should measure Nitrates, just out of curiosity.
pH: 6
NH3/NH4: 6
NO2: 0
NO3: 40-50 ppm

I did some research and the high amount of Nitrates is probably because of the Aqua Soil. Also, the low pH is delaying the cycling process.

My question is, how do I proceed?
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your reply @hypnogogia .
Yes, looks like it will take longer than the expected 4-6 weeks. But I don't want it to take too long.
I'm changing 50% of water right now. I'm adding tap water with Prime to raise the pH a bit (around 6.4 most probably). Also I'll raise the temperature to 30 C.
I guess that would help to speed up the process a bit. Does that make sense or I'm just chasing my tail?
 
Hi
Do not worry about temperature. Keep it in the normal for the future system range.You want more oxygen to speed up the process not temperature increase.
Regards Konstantin
 
You can proceed as if you didn't record the nitrates. They don't matter in the dark cycling.

Wait for ammonia and nitrite to read negative, do 100% water change and then add the fishies.
 
I would stop adding ammonium as the Aquasoil provides it, and too much can kill off the micro-organisms you are trying to cultivate.
As @Konsa says, I would keep the temp as it will be when the tank is planted and stocked, and I would do the same with the pH. I want to cultivate an assemblage of micro-organisms that will thrive in the tank conditions, so I try to keep those conditions stable from the start.
 
If you fancy a lot of reading, try this thread:
and the ones it links to.
 
Thanks for your replies guys!
Hi
Do not worry about temperature. Keep it in the normal for the future system range.You want more oxygen to speed up the process not temperature increase.
Regards Konstantin
I've read that raising the temperature during the cycle helps the development of the bacteria, most probably because the amount of the free ammonia (NH3, which is the food of the bacteria) increases with higher temperature and pH.

I did a 50% water change yesterday with conditioned tap water and set the temperature to 29 C.
Today's readings:

pH: 6.5
NH3+NH4: 4 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 40ppm
KH: 1 dKH
GH: 8 dGH
TDS: 160 ppm

I use this calculator to see how much free ammonia there's in the tank. Based on these readings, I have 0.01 of free ammonia, which is far better than the 0.0029 I had yesterday. Even the Ammonia Alert badge shifted a bit from yellow to a more green-ish yellow. I guess that's a small boost to the cycling process, right?
You can proceed as if you didn't record the nitrates. They don't matter in the dark cycling.

Wait for ammonia and nitrite to read negative, do 100% water change and then add the fishies.
You're right. I know that plants take up Nitrates, so, yeah I won't be bothered to measure them again in the near future.
So, I guess now all I have to do is wait till Nitrites show up and then both NH3 and NO2 go to 0.
 
Hi
The amount of free Ammonia is not very relevant if the bacteria is oxygen limited .
The bacterial growth and nitrification are Oxygen dependent processes and you can throw as much food for the bacteria as you want or try to increase metabolic rates by increasing temperature but if you don't maintain good oxygen levels you wont get very far.Oxygen is the real metric of nitrification.
Regards Konstantin
 
Use this Tutorial method below!
hoggie
 
Hi
The amount of free Ammonia is not very relevant if the bacteria is oxygen limited .
The bacterial growth and nitrification are Oxygen dependent processes and you can throw as much food for the bacteria as you want or try to increase metabolic rates by increasing temperature but if you don't maintain good oxygen levels you wont get very far.Oxygen is the real metric of nitrification.
Regards Konstantin
I moved the lily pipe a bit higher, so that it drags surface water and air. Is it enough to oxygenate the water?

IMG_5187.jpg


Use this Tutorial method below!
hoggie
Don't know if I can add any plants now. No lights.
 
Hi
that will do the job.
The stems advice is for a different scenario when you plant from the get go without dark start but can be applied to your setup later when you finish the dark start and plant the tank.Having fast growing plants will help for the system to mature and balance itself.You can keep them or change them later if you wish.
I personally like to have at least one rampant growing stem plant and some floating plants in all my tanks.It makes life easier ;)
Regards Konstantin
 
I moved the lily pipe a bit higher, so that it drags surface water and air. Is it enough to oxygenate the water?



I got this usb pump from China seller. cost me US$3.5 including shipping (shipping to EU may be more). The bubbles on the plants are from the pump....
 
Hi
that will do the job.
The stems advice is for a different scenario when you plant from the get go without dark start but can be applied to your setup later when you finish the dark start and plant the tank.Having fast growing plants will help for the system to mature and balance itself.You can keep them or change them later if you wish.
I personally like to have at least one rampant growing stem plant and some floating plants in all my tanks.It makes life easier ;)
Regards Konstantin
Yes, I'll add fast growing and floating plants when I get to that point. Thank you @Konsa .


I got this usb pump from China seller. cost me US$3.5 including shipping (shipping to EU may be more). The bubbles on the plants are from the pump....

Not an option. I want minimal equipment in the tank. Just the glass lily pipes and the CO2 drop checker. Everything else is hidden in or behind the cabinet.
 
Another (probably dumb) question. It's been only 10 days since I've set up the tank, so I guess it would take 4-5 more weeks to cycle. Do I have to take readings daily, or weekly?
 
Hi all,
The amount of free Ammonia is not very relevant if the bacteria is oxygen limited .
The bacterial growth and nitrification are Oxygen dependent processes and you can throw as much food for the bacteria as you want or try to increase metabolic rates by increasing temperature but if you don't maintain good oxygen levels you wont get very far.Oxygen is the real metric of nitrification.
That is it, oxygen is relevant, ammonia isn't really.

Ammonia addition <"may actually prolong"> the "cycle". Once you've stopped adding any ammonia, and changed some water, things should start improving.
I've read that raising the temperature during the cycle helps the development of the bacteria, most probably because the amount of the free ammonia (NH3, which is the food of the bacteria) increases with higher temperature and pH.
Yes, just ignore what <"you read about cycling">, most of it hasn't caught up with more <"recent advances in scientific knowledge">.

This is also applies to pH, the microbes that actually perform nitrification in aquarium filters don't require high pH and/or carbonate hardness. These are <"Dr Tim Hovanec's comments"> about <"what we do know about nitrification">.

Free ammonia is a bit confusing as a term, it is just the portion of the Total Ammoniacal Nitrogen (TAN) <"which comprises NH3">, rather than NH4+, and this is <"dependent mainly on pH"> and is a dynamic equilibrium.
1631530339124-png.png

Do I have to take readings daily, or weekly?
Entirely up to you. I would leave it at least another week and then plant the tank, if the ammonia and nitrite levels fall to zero that is ideal, but it isn't a deal breaker if they don't.

In terms of the tank being "fish safe" you just need reasonably large biomass of plants in active growth, then it is fish safe. The advantage of the looking at the plants is that they can't mislead in the same way that test could.
You're right. I know that plants take up Nitrates, so, yeah I won't be bothered to measure them again in the near future.
<"Plants also take up"> ammonium (NH4+) and nitrite (NO2-), which is one reason why <"planted tanks are more efficient for biological filtration">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi @dw1305 ,

Thank you for your input.
I'll plant the tank first and then, after 1-2 months, when the plants grow and it's a bit more "mature" I'll add the fish.

I was really bad at chemistry, so, please bear with me. I do know that ammonia (NH3) evaporates. How come it builds up and doesn't evaporate when it's in an aquarium?
 
Hi all,
when the plants grow and it's a bit more "mature" I'll add the fish.
That is what we recommend, <"plant and wait">. It just does away with all the uncertainty, if you aren't sure? You just wait a little bit longer.
I do know that ammonia (NH3) evaporates. How come it builds up and doesn't evaporate when it's in an aquarium?
That is right, ammonia (NH3) is a gas and diffuses into water from the gills of fish, the breakdown of proteins etc. and then theoretically from the water back into the atmosphere. Even though the rate of evaporation would depend on the concentration gradient between the water and the atmosphere, one thing you have to bear in mind is that ammonia is <"incredibly soluble in water"> so unless you heat the water (all gases are less soluble at higher temperatures) it will remain in solution.
........The solubility of ammonia gas in water is extremely high—approximately 460 litres of ammonia gas will dissolve in one litres of water at 20oC......
Another effect of this extreme solubility is that the "escaping tendency" of NH3 molecules from H2O is only about 1/10 of what it is from liquid NH3. We can smell ammonia at very low concentrations, which is why you can get the "ammonia smell" if a fish dies etc.

I've had the good luck/ misfortune to visit quite a <"few sewage treatment works"> and on warm days your eyes really water.

cheers Darrel
 
My tank's been running for 3,5 months. I've cycled it (dark start method) for 3 of these months. So, the plants are there for about 15 days. They are growing normally and the HC Cuba has almost covered most of the foreground.
Took some NO3 readings today

Tank water
NO3: 40 mg/l
pH: 6.5

Tap water
NO3: 40 mg/l
pH:7.5

RO water
NO3: ~30 mg/l
pH:7.5

I checked the water quality report for my area and the NO3 readings are 32-39 mg/l. So the API test seems accurate.
I've added an Amano shrimp and I've read that even 20 mg/l NO3 is too much for them. Should have tested for NO3 before adding the shrimp. I know, my bad.
My question is, is there a way to lower the NO3 levels of my tank?
 
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