How to achieve 10 times flow

[FrozenShivers]

My understanding is that if you aren't running CO2 you don't need anywhere near x10 turnover, anywhere from x2-x3 upwards would suffice. If you are running CO2 and need to up your flow then it's either oversize your filter, add another filter or add a pump. If you just needed small amounts of extra flow to hit your target you could possibly change your sponge/media setup within filters to eek out some extra flow.

 

[Andy Pierce]

I run a Vortech MP10wqd (VorTech MP10wQD - Fireplace aquarium) and like it a lot. It has a neat appearance since no electrical cables need to go into the water. I have never had any problems with amano shrimp coming to grief with it. From time to time a zebra thorn snail will crawl in until you can hear the impeller whacking on the shell at which point the snail generally retreats with no harm done.

 

[louis_last]

I set my 125 litre Aquael tank up 15 months ago and I installed an Aquael 2000, which is at least 15 times volume turnover. I ran the tank dark for a month before adding plants and fertilized with a general purpose fertilizer as per instructions. All water parameters were excellent from weekly tests with zero nitrates, mirrored and ammonia. However plant growth was slow, as might be expected in a low tech set up, but then I began suffering with excessive algae growth. I tried every option I could think of from dosing with liquid carbon, using algae killer and even a full week total black out to no avail.
Having read an article on this forum about the folly of following the high flow, frequent water change methodology I completely changed my approach. I reduced the flow to the absolute minimum I could achieve without killing the bacteria in the filter and causing a possible poisoning of the tank. I stopped adding anything, I even turned one of the two led tubes off. Plant growth just took off, things are that prolific I am culling even my epiphytes. I haven't done a water change in 4 months and my water parameters haven't changed at all. I simply too up any evaporation and clean the front glass. There is very little algae and I leave that for the cherry shrimps that are breeding prolifically. The inhabitants are a dozen cardinals, ten danios, four dwarf cats and four Ottos.
Not sure how this fits in with all the highly credible advice on setting up an aquascape but thought I would share

Interesting to read this because I've had similar experiences myself where it really seemed like higher flow was causing algae and reducing flow seemed to fix the problem, especially without co2. I can't really think of any reason why this should be the case though.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I tried every option I could think of from dosing with liquid carbon, using algae killer and even a full week total black out to no avail.
Having read an article on this forum about the folly of following the high flow, frequent water change methodology I completely changed my approach. I reduced the flow to the absolute minimum I could achieve without killing the bacteria in the filter and causing a possible poisoning of the tank. I stopped adding anything, I even turned one of the two led tubes off. Plant growth just took off, things are that prolific I am culling even my epiphytes. I haven't done a water change in 4 months and my water parameters haven't changed at all.

I'm going to say that tank stability was the thing that made the difference, have a look at the <"Seasoned Tank Time"> concept.

I would go back to <"changing some water">. I change <"a small volume"> on a regular basis, and I'm convinced it helps <"with fish health">.

Thanks, nitrates are still showing zero though...

That is likely to be an issue with the test kit. The difficulties of <"accurately testing for nitrate"> (NO3-) were one of the drivers for the development of the <"Duckweed Index">, where you use the <"leaf colour and growth"> of a floating plant (non-CO2 limited) as a <"proxy for nutrient levels">.

cheers Darrel

 

[MichaelJ]

Speaking as a low-tech keeper, the key is to have proper circulation throughout the tank - including at the substrate level. It's essential for distribution of nutrients. This is not only a concern forCO2 injected tank - however, its more of a tightrope situation in a high-tech tank due to the much higher metabolic rate - things tends to go off the rails faster if not done right - its like driving an F1 race car vs. a spiffy run-of-the-mill car....
Regardless of tech, in a really densely planted tank you fairly easily can get stale areas that result in lack of nutrients and eventually subpar plant health... In my own two 150L (40 US gallon) densely planted tanks I figure - based on the filter specs - I have about 1800 l/h (2xPatMini 400 l/h, 2 x Tidal 35 500 l/h). That amounts to a 12 x turnover ... that was not something I sat down and meticolously targeted when I put up the tanks (which I perhaps could have if I would be more experienced), it just came natural as I saw certain areas of the tanks being underserved as they grew in and matured.

With water changes it depends as well... in my case, densely planted and very mature stable tanks and moderately stocked (except perhaps for my shrimp tank) I can comfortably go for two weeks and do 35%. (I actually do WC's every 11-12 days) - I probably could push that to 14 days and 30%... All this - in my experience - depends on the maturity, plant density and stocking level of the tank. When/if I start to see an unanticipated rise in TDS, plants looking lackluster or buildup of detritus/gunk (or algae, which I haven't seen to any noticeable degree for ages in any of my tanks) I know I am on the wrong side of the proper maintenance equation - which is what happened over the late spring / early summer where I didn't change water for 5 weeks and hardly did any fertilizer due to travel etc. For new tanks, regardless of tech level, I still subscribe to the +50%/wk idea until the tank matures and you have a better sense of what is needed for upkeep and a thriving tank. Nothing much in this hobby is cut in stone... except that you have to care for your livestock to the best of your abilities and you have to have patience.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[copperband]

Small update since posting my original question. I ended up buying the Maxspect Jump Gyre which I'm very happy with. Its considerably overpowered for my 90 x 45 x 45, I run it at 10 or 20% only. I certainly helps to keep everything moving and minimise any dead spots. My only complaint is that the controls and set up are not particularly intuitive and the instructions are terrible. I'd really like a simple mode where I could set a daytime Flow and a more gentle nighttime. The only was to seemingly achieve this is by manually dropping the flow from 20 to 10% each night.
I've not played with any of the other modes as they seem more useful for a reef aquarium. That said, I'd be interested to share others experience of the other modes used with success in a planted tank.

 

[John q]

instructions are terrible. I'd really like a simple mode where I could set a daytime Flow and a more gentle nighttime. The only was to seemingly achieve this is by manually dropping the flow from 20 to 10% each night

Yes the instruction manual is indeed terrible.

I run mine in the same manner as yourself.
It is possible to program different settings at different times but its not something I looked that hard into.

If I get time over the weekend I'll have another look how to set it on auto, I'm sure once worked out it will be simple enough.

 

[hypnogogia]

I'm sure once worked out it will be simple enough.

Once set, leave well alone. That’s my experience as it it possibly the most counter intuitive system I’ve ever come across.

 

[copperband]

Did anyone get anywhere with working out a way to vary the flow over a 24 hour period?
I'd really like to have a period overnight when mine switched off to zero flow, I'd then like to be able to vary the flow at points during the day between off / 10% / 20% flow.
Any help, gratefully received

 

[Franks]

I noticed a huge difference in my 150L cube by adding a 2000lph wavemaker. The tank runs on a Biomaster 350 but the problem with relying on a filter to provide flow is that the flow doesn't remain consistent when the filter output degrades due to minor clogging. This in turn creates other issues. Adding a small additional pump guarantees flow and detritus is more likely to remain suspended so the filter picks it up. Within a few days of adding the wavemaker, my Monte Carlo is sat extremely flat on the substrate and pearling. All other plants are also displaying healthier characteristics. The reasons are now more obvious. Better gaseous exchange, more nutrients and Co2 available to the plants, and flow consistency will remain unaffected by the filter output and cleaning schedule. I've also noticed there is now barely anything collected in my surface skimmer, the plants aren't shedding any dead leaves.

Huge benefits all round in my book.

 

[_Maq_]

Speaking as a low-tech keeper, the key is to have proper circulation throughout the tank - including at the substrate level. It's essential for distribution of nutrients.

... and oxygen!

you were/are running low tech, so the 10X flow formula doesn’t really apply, nor does the 50% weekly water change.

Why so?

 

[MichaelJ]

... and oxygen!

For sure! Oxygen is a nutrient

Cheers,
Michael

 

[_Maq_]

Oxygen is a nutrient

Actually, it is not.

 

[26024]

My problem is that I have a fluval 307 which is more than is needed on my 100L tank, but as I have ember tetras it's hard to add flow as they get stressed and mope miserably.

I’ve got similar issue with my fluval 107.

Since I’ve changed output for a glass ware (straight nozzle) I think I’m having little bit too much flow.

Not the end of the world but my ember tetras all together with other fish are hiding on the back of tank when lights goes off.

Will leave it until Saturday and see how it goes.

The thing is when I’m trying reduce flow on filter itself it goes quite noisy.

🤷‍♂️

 

[copperband]

Ideally, I would like to have a period where the flow from the Gyre is off completely (at night) then have either a flow that builds up during the day to a max of 20% and then down again. Or, perhaps a variation in flow where is moves between 0 / 10 / 20% at different times of the day back and forth. Unlike a reef tank, it's difficult to know what flow we really want to simulate, especially when keeping a community mix of fish that will vary considerably from high flow and no flow areas in nature. in the reeftank we really want to get the best from the corals with water movement like the sea, in a planted tank we are using the water movement more for nutrient distribution.

 

[Tankless]

I’ve got similar issue with my fluval 107.

Since I’ve changed output for a glass ware (straight nozzle) I think I’m having little bit too much flow.

Not the end of the world but my ember tetras all together with other fish are hiding on the back of tank when lights goes off.

Will leave it until Saturday and see how it goes.

The thing is when I’m trying reduce flow on filter itself it goes quite noisy.

🤷‍♂️

You can reduce the flow to a minimum of 50% according to the manual. I have mine on line 5 within an aquascaper 600 and the flow seems fine. I did stuff the two middle baskets with ceramic rings from my filter that was leaking (it was an emergency swap) which probably slowed the flow down.

 

[MichaelJ]

Actually, it is not.

Yes, it is lol... Ok, lets see how the word nutrient is defined in the English language:

Nutrient: "a substance or ingredient that promotes growth, provides energy, and maintains life"

Would be hard to argue that O2 is not in the category of being a nutrient for the maintenance of life in an aquarium

Cheers,
Michael

 

[NinjaMonkey]

Just to add to other comments but I was struggling eith my 260l tank with a biomaster 850.. I tried several (3) poweheads and I always still suffered from low flow areas even when used together.
This is until got the maxspect jump gyer and its great.. I use at 10% mostly and you can see how much it helps flow. Definitely recommended and same price as an ai nero 3 but much better in my opinion.

 

[hypnogogia]

... and oxygen!

Why so?

Because many beautiful and successful aquaria exist without 50% weekly water change and less than 10x flow.

 

[John q]

If I get time over the weekend I'll have another look how to set it on auto, I'm sure once worked out it will be simple enough.

@copperband my theory is we are here to help people who need help, regardless of how trivial that help may seem to others. Most things in life are simple, once you know how to do it. Sooo....

How do you set the auto program on the maxspect jump gyre. Firstly a couple of pics.

I'm going to refer to: Power button (top right), button A (bottom right), red button (red button in centre) and toggle disk (black disk in centre that moves).

First up, set the time: Press power and A button at the same time and the hour on the clock will start flashing, using toggle disk set the hour, once set press the red button and then set the minutes. When finished press button A.. Time is set.

Next up put the gyre controller in auto mode by pressing and holding button A for 3 seconds, this toggles between auto and manual mode.

Now once in auto mode (letter A can be seen in outlined square box) press button A, this puts you into the timer program. TP1 will flash as in pic below.

Next press the red button and now the time will start flashing, set the time using the same procedure as mentioned above. This is the time you want a particular program to start. Once set press the red button and the flow patterns will start flashing.

Decide which flow pattern you want by using the toggle button and then press the red button. Now your flow options will start flashing.

Pick the flow option you want, in my case because I'm on direct flow my only option is flow strength so I use the toggle button to get to desired strength, and once chosen I press the red button, this then takes me back to the start and TP1 should be flashing again.
If you had a variable flow pattern you'd have to set the various options using the same toggle and red button procedure.

So by now you should have particular flow set to come on at a particular time. Now all you need to do is toggle the flashing TP1 until it says TP2 and repeat all the above steps for the next program start time.

Once you've entered all the programs press button A and it returns to the home screen and should implement the desired auto settings 👍

Any questions or issues just ask.