How to create a muddied river bank . . .

[zozo]

Thanks @zozo - that kit in the first link looks good. Do you think the same material used for Terrarium’s will be fine being completely submerged for several years in an aquarium?

Delamination can occur with anything if water can get in between coating and base material.

That Elastopur actually is a 2 component liquid rubber, nowadays this also exists as waterbased 1 component liquid rubber products from several brands in different colours to seal water tanks, swimming pools and ponds. I guess a water-based 1 component product is not only easier to use but also more affordable. Anything 2 component can not be stored once it is mixed.

But also these products can have delamination issues after a few years if applied to a not fully dried (moist) surface without the use of a special primer. This mainly shows as air bubbles under the skin.

I guess best practice would be to coat the object all around and not only the part that is in view. Even if it is applied to a water-resistant material. Or seal the edges where it touches the glass accordingly so there can get no water behind it to the base material and in between its coating. If you do not do this there is no guarantee it will hold for several years and that delamination will never occur. All tho even if small pieces delaminate you probably will not notice, it's not that a loose piece of skin will fall off.

And this still isn't a 100% guarantee, take a good look at most older fish tanks, most of them have some delaminated silicone in the corners. As long as it doesn't leak there are no worries, but do we ever really know? There are reports enough of fish tanks spontaneously leaking after a few years... Water and temperature fluctuation on submerged products under pressure can be a slow nasty creeper.

 

[zozo]

Another possible and rather cheap application that can be used... I did myself in the past but almost forgot...

Is silicone sealant this product is petrol-based, it can be mixed with something like white spirit and make it thin enough so it can be applied it with a brush...

Also, this can be sprinkled with whatever material at hand... I used it like that to create a waterfall in the garden and sprinkled gravel over the yet not cured silicone... Also used to seal terracotta pots and make them watertight... The white spirit will completely evaporate and aquarium safe silicone should be used. I never had any issues with it and it's pretty tough after its cured.

 

[ForestDave]

Thanks @ForestDave - useful stuff there. Again though, I’m just concerned as to whether I’d be able to creat something that looks natural with my own relatively low skill levels.

I’ve also been wondering about the trapped layer at the rear fouling up. I wondered, if I do attempt this, whether I make the fake river bank on a sheet of Perspex, and then once complete mount it to the side of the tank with a very thin continuous bead of silicone, say about an inch in from all four edges. The idea being it won’t let water in behind most of it, and I should be able to slit the silicone and release the Perspex sheet whenever I decide to redo the tank.

Thanks for that link - going to have to remember about the “Ultimate Wound Kit” for the kids at Halloween! 😂

That sound like a good system with the perspex and silicon, it would be really useful to have it removable. I had a mountain of unmovable polystyrene covered with rock hard w/b fiberglass, trapping skanky pockets of stagnant water behind it.
Yep I reckon that's a great idea for next Halloween!

 

[zozo]

Some inspirational links...

Paludarium for Poison Dart Frogs

Here are a few ways to make a paludarium suitable for a poison dart frog!

thefroglady.wordpress.com

6ft paludarium journal- pictures

Hi Bros, Anyone keep 6ft vivarium tank or seen any 6ft vivarium tank in Singapore?:) Care to share with me? I still wavering, should I setup a vivarium project for this 6x2.5x2.5 tank .:blackeye: let me know your thoughts.

www.aquaticquotient.com

A planted tank thats possibly an industry first.

This is my second planted tank, i had others ask to see my other tanks that i had. That there had to be others do to " no knob could create such a tank on there first try" So heres my second attemp. the tank is placed off the wall and i made a water proof shelf basicaly on three sides where all...

www.aquariacentral.com

All found at www.pinterest.com with the search query "Paludarium Build instructions" ore something along that line.
Then you'll find tons of pictures and most contain a link to the source... You'll find journals about builds from scratch.

And Dendroboard.com is absolutely worth to visit, the frog keepers all need to build an included water party for the pollywogs.

Dendroboard

A forum community dedicated to dart frog owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, health, behavior, housing, terrariums, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!

www.dendroboard.com

 

[zozo]

Another idea I used my self in the past on a smaller scale is Lavarocks... I do not see why size should be an issue with it... This stuff is light, easy to shape, chunks are available at all sizes it is easy to stack and glued together. Once the retaining wall is setup the lava rock can also be coated with a liquid rubber... It is coarse and porous, the glue and coating will run into the porous nooks and crannies and never come off again. It creates a perfect anchor...

But keep in mind if you use natural organic materials to cover the coating, this material will soak with water and at some point will decompose and delaminate. That is something inevitable with submersed natural materials such as wood and peat etc. But using a natural colour coating can do a lot...

 

[Andrew Butler]

I started a reply yesterday but didn't get it finished so I'm a few steps behind, like the sound of what @foxfish says at a quick glance.
I think an expanding foam based idea could work as a base but would likely ruin that aquarium if you made it in situ to fill out to the front.
If you're not wanting it all the way to the front then maybe 2 thin pieces of acrylic with expanding foam moulded around a big stone it keep it down.
You can stick pieces of twig in as it sets and will keep them in place, a bit of trial and error here.
There are products like Nyos reef cement and Aquaforest stone fix which are almost like Postcrete but go off fast and think could stick to the expanding foam although I'm not sure about that so again trial and error.

 

[Wookii]

Does anyone have any link to coloured aquarium safe PU foam? The

Some inspirational links...

Paludarium for Poison Dart Frogs

Here are a few ways to make a paludarium suitable for a poison dart frog!

thefroglady.wordpress.com

6ft paludarium journal- pictures

Hi Bros, Anyone keep 6ft vivarium tank or seen any 6ft vivarium tank in Singapore?:) Care to share with me? I still wavering, should I setup a vivarium project for this 6x2.5x2.5 tank .:blackeye: let me know your thoughts.

www.aquaticquotient.com

A planted tank thats possibly an industry first.

This is my second planted tank, i had others ask to see my other tanks that i had. That there had to be others do to " no knob could create such a tank on there first try" So heres my second attemp. the tank is placed off the wall and i made a water proof shelf basicaly on three sides where all...

www.aquariacentral.com

All found at www.pinterest.com with the search query "Paludarium Build instructions" ore something along that line.
Then you'll find tons of pictures and most contain a link to the source... You'll find journals about builds from scratch.

And Dendroboard.com is absolutely worth to visit, the frog keepers all need to build an included water party for the pollywogs.

Dendroboard

A forum community dedicated to dart frog owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, health, behavior, housing, terrariums, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!

www.dendroboard.com

Some great links there, thanks @zozo - I’ll work my way through them . . .

 

[zozo]

Can't wait to see what you come up with if you ever build something like it...

I've been playing with this idea in my mind already for a few years... And one day I'll build something like it. When that will be I dunno but my next one will be... Not sure if I go on with my initial idea of a shallow L-shaped tank that goes 90° in the corner with a middle diagonal front panel... The background of the diagonal part will be set up as if it was a muddy eroded outside overhanging river bank going emerged with plants and roots obviously... It's almost 5 years ago I created this fantasy in my mind...

L shaped tank with diagonal front panel

This is actualy what i'm thinking about.. Not big and rather shallow with loads of emersed growth,, Actualy it should resamble a stream with a 90° bend where the back 90° corner wil completely be elevated to emersed and rounded. Like this. Maybe smaller, just an idea.. My 3 tanks in one idea...

www.ukaps.org

Still pondering over it. This is the runner up towards it...

Where The Jungle "Destroys" Red Rock Creek..

What species is this lily? :) This one... But then a very small cutting from its rhizome... That way it stays very small for a few years depending on fertilization and light cycle... This actually goes for any lily sp. with a Marliac or Tuberosa rhizome. Cut off a small young plantlet from...

www.ukaps.org

 

[Wookii]

Another idea I used my self in the past on a smaller scale is Lavarocks... I do not see why size should be an issue with it... This stuff is light, easy to shape, chunks are available at all sizes it is easy to stack and glued together. Once the retaining wall is setup the lava rock can also be coated with a liquid rubber... It is coarse and porous, the glue and coating will run into the porous nooks and crannies and never come off again. It creates a perfect anchor...

But keep in mind if you use natural organic materials to cover the coating, this material will soak with water and at some point will decompose and delaminate. That is something inevitable with submersed natural materials such as wood and peat etc. But using a natural colour coating can do a lot...

I think this is the way I’m going to go. I can’t see myself being able to create something that looks natural enough from scratch so if I start with lava rock, at least I’m half way there already.

I have some circular saws and other tools that will be fine on stone and lava rock is fairly soft. So I’m thinking my process would be:

1. Cut a piece of acrylic to fit just inside the tank panel being done, maybe with a bend on the base to help it stand.

2. Select some lava rock pieces for the design, maybe cutting some of them in half or cutting or sanding flat surfaces to mount against the acrylic.

3. With the cut acrylic laying flat, and the surface pre-sanded to achieve a good key, assemble the lava rock to create the basis of the river bank.

4. Removing one piece at a time, lay down a bed of PU foam (brown if I can find it), and bed each piece of lava rock in place. Filling any gaps I don’t want with PU foam and smaller pieces of lava rock, and adding in some roots and wood piece where needed, and where I want it to look more ‘embedded’ in the bank.

5. Use my Dremel with a wire brush fitting to grind back any excess PU foam to shape it and create a rough texture similar to the lava rock.

6. Mix lava rock dust and particle with some silicone or resin and paint it over any exposed PU foam, pouring over and pressing in additional lava rock particles. Add finishing bits of roots and wood.

7. Once finished and washed, add a small bead to the edge of the of the rear of the Perspex to seal it to the inside face of the tank.


I would want to create a slight overhang to the river bank design, and I’d also want some emersed growth above water level, so I may carve out the top of the over hang, and drill drainage holes, to allow planting inside it too.

Now I just need a cheap source for lots of natural looking lava rock?

 

[Wookii]

I started a reply yesterday but didn't get it finished so I'm a few steps behind, like the sound of what @foxfish says at a quick glance.
I think an expanding foam based idea could work as a base but would likely ruin that aquarium if you made it in situ to fill out to the front.
If you're not wanting it all the way to the front then maybe 2 thin pieces of acrylic with expanding foam moulded around a big stone it keep it down.
You can stick pieces of twig in as it sets and will keep them in place, a bit of trial and error here.
There are products like Nyos reef cement and Aquaforest stone fix which are almost like Postcrete but go off fast and think could stick to the expanding foam although I'm not sure about that so again trial and error.

Thanks Andrew - yeah, I think a bit of experimentation and trial and error is going to be needed before I attempt the final thing.

 

[zozo]

Now I just need a cheap source for lots of natural looking lava rock?

In pond shops, you definitively find Lava rock as a filter medium by the bag... Smaller pieces you would need anyway. What comes in handy the bottom of the bags is always littered with dust from the rocks... For bigger pieces, you would be better off in garden centres or garden landscape shops. In my area, the bigger lava rock sold as aquarium decoration is massively overpriced.

 

[zozo]

BTW James Findley has a nice maybe inspirational tutorial video on using Lava rock to go into height... Named Altitude...

 

[Wookii]

In pond shops, you definitively find Lava rock as a filter medium by the bag... Smaller pieces you would need anyway. What comes in handy the bottom of the bags is always littered with dust from the rocks... For bigger pieces, you would be better off in garden centres or garden landscape shops. In my area, the bigger lava rock sold as aquarium decoration is massively overpriced.

Yep - as soon as you add the word ‘Aquarium’ to any item it appears to be license to quadruple the price!

The aquarium shops also seem to focus more on the pure red or pure black type lava rocks - I want stuff that’s a random mixture of colourations I think, as it’ll be easier to make look more natural. A bit like this:

 

[zozo]

And regarding the video of James he makes an expensive mistake...He pours bags of expensive substrate behind it and uses substrate supports to prevent it from running out off the gaps... While you can use smaller lava rocks the fill it up, but then first glue a few small pieces into gaps to plug them from behind. Lava rock is extremely versatile to build with.

In this video, he could have saved on at least 2 bags of expensive substrate with using smaller sized filter lava rock instead.

 

[Wookii]

And regarding the video of James he makes an expensive mistake...He pours bags of expensive substrate behind it and uses substrate supports to prevent it from running out off the gaps... While you can use smaller lava rocks the fill it up, but then first glue a few small pieces into gaps to plug them from behind. Lava rock is extremely versatile to build with.

In this video, he could have saved on at least 2 bags of expensive substrate with using smaller sized filter lava rock instead.

I did wonder why he was adding soil so low down at the back there.

I do like his videos, but I’ve always wondered if it is him narrating too, and then wondered why he always refers to himself in the third person

 

[zozo]

I've once seen a few of his interviews, he is not the narrator of the videos..

 

[Wookii]

So this expanding foam claims to be fish safe, and isn’t a bad starting colour at medium grey (despite its description being black).

Pond Sealants

Pond Sealants for fixing leaking ponds. Available with our lowest price guarantee and free delivery options.

www.swelluk.com

Can’t seem to find anything brown though.

 

[zozo]

So this expanding foam claims to be fish safe, and isn’t a bad starting colour at medium grey (despite its description being black).

Pond Sealants

Pond Sealants for fixing leaking ponds. Available with our lowest price guarantee and free delivery options.

www.swelluk.com

Can’t seem to find anything brown though.

It is, it is often used for pond building... I've used it too... And it also waterlogs like a sponge after a while...
I don't believe it is any different as the yellow one from the hardware store it just black.

 

[Andrew Butler]

The foamfix Oase do is black also.
I think @zozo is right about there being no difference aside from colour to the yellow construction type expanding foam.

There's loads of info from people making DIY backgrounds for vivariums different ways so guess it's down to you which one(s) you want to experiment with.

Are you wanting things to fit tight against the glass, if not how do you see it being laid out?
Interested to see how this develops to try a terrarium of some descriptor at some point.

 

[Wookii]

It is, it is often used for pond building... I've used it too... And it also waterlogs like a sponge after a while...
I don't believe it is any different as the yellow one from the hardware store it just black.

Oh, I figured some stuff might have fungicides in etc? If there is even the slightest risk of that, I’d rather just use the stuff that’s says it’s safe for aquatics - I don’t particularly want yellow anyway just in case some of it becomes visible further down the line.