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I think I did something really stupid....

I live in the Netherlands. I never heard of anyone using dechlorinator here . But it won't hurt so I will buy it as a precaution. I will not pour cold water immediately in the tank anymore. It was a hard lesson. Thanks for your replies.


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Achilles1 said:
I live in the Netherlands
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Netherlands uses other methods to sterilise water, chloramine is one, various other sulphur compounds as well.

This says 95% chlorine free.
http://www.hollandtrade.com/sector-information/water/water-technologies/?bstnum=4931

I seem to remember this low use of chlorine came about, due deployment of a certain type of plastic pipe (leading the world in the 70's, might be polythene) that can react with chlorine leading to chemical issues. This type of pipe not an issue in UK (as not used) and we have to use chlorine due to the poor state of the Victorian water pipes.

Found it, trihalomethanes (carcinogenic) were found in dutch water supplies in the 70's caused by chlorine, so water purification switched to UV and hydrogen peroxide sterilisation, which costs more but works fine. So might not need dechlorinator in Netherlands. Nice.
 
I don't know how current this brochure is, but contacting the local water treatment company is likely your best source of information

In mid-2002, Evides decided to add an activated carbon
filtration unit, pH correction, and chlorine dioxide dosage for
post-disinfection ...
Click to expand...

So sorry for your losses
 
I have a friend in the Netherlands I am sure he doesnt dechlorinate.

I looked up your fish on the Seriously Fish database and it does say that the temp in their natural environment rarely fluctuates and that they tend to fare poorly unless maintained at 24-28.

Bad luck - its a good database to research the requirements of new fish - i always have a look before i buy.something new :)
 
Hi
It would be a good idea if the avatar had the members location.....as this gives a better indication of the circumstances that they may encounter within their area/region/country.
hoggie
 
Hi Achilles1,
Sounds like brumbird above has the answer, some fish are more sensitive. You're probably fine in summer, but need to heat it in winter as the ground temp is a lot lower.

ian_m said:
Yes but I think largely an old wives tale. Copper pipe is attacked by hot soft low pH water, but my "Copper Tube in Domestic Water Services Design and Installation" book states that there are no UK companies that supply water that will attack copper as the water is treated to remove acidity before delivery.
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cheers for that. I'm in an area of Devon which is "moderately soft" and whenever I've tested it it is pH7.2. and there is no corrosion in our pipes, but we get a bit of green staining around the hot tap in the bath. There's never any mineral build up in our kettle, but a little bit where water evaporates around the lid.
I know SWW harden the water but I couldn't find out when they started, and whether it was pre my grandparents and parents telling me not to drink from the hot tap or my insides would go green!
(there was also the run-the-tap-before-drinking-from-it which is probably a holdover from when lead pipes were used!)
phil

argh. That burning spell is from the cooking onions I forgot while writing this.
 
The use of chemical disinfectants such as chlorine is no longer allowed in the Netherlands except for emergencies. Such emergencies are almost always published to the public and they are quite rare to be honest. Dutch law also specifies that during normal operations if chlorine or chloramine is found in the water then sodium thiosulfate must be added to neutralise it. As a result few fishkeepers here use conditioners because it's not necessary.

In general water here is of a constant and very high quality and like almost all other European countries lab test results are readily available to the public.

PErsonally I never bother to match temperatures. I just syphon in the water in a 6mm hose and lace it with some thawed cyclops or other small snack. As a result my fish are conditioned that fresh cold water is a good thing but I hardly ever do more than a 35% change in one go and the new water goes in over 90-120 minutes.

I think in this case temperature shock may have been the issue. Poisoning via the tap water is very unlikely.
 
Martin in China said:
The water quality here in China is always fluctuating, I always use prime just to be on the safe side, I also always match water temp. as I seem to have read this and I change 50% of my water in 30 minutes or less (300 liter tank). So you guys think that I don't need to do this?
Click to expand...

Much depends on the health of your fish & some species are definitely more sensitive to fluctuating parametres than others - not sure how much this is inherent in the fish & how much is a reaction to the manner in which we keep them (strange (inappropriate?) foods, bright lights, extreme space limitations, "dirty" water, enforced interactions with non-compatible ie stressful tankmates etc, etc).
Generally a healthy (thriving) fish is well able to deal with single stressors, but start compiling the stressors & fish pathogens increase dramatically (even before we recognise signs of disease) which means fewer resources left for absorbing the impact of temperature changes, pH changes, chemical challenges (not just the basic ammonia, chlorine, nitrite, nitrate etc that most consider).

If you do frequent 25% water changes, it's often possible to ignore balancing of new vs old water; perform 70% water changes (especially over a short interval, think python system & 10 min total time) & fewer fish are going to thrive longterm with these fluctuations (part of this fish response may be due to impact on the cycle bacteria) - don't forget that ammonia/chlorine/nitrite/nitrate (& so on) damage is often permanent, so over time, damage becomes cumulative.
If you do infrequent water changes, then tank water parametres (not just the few we might measure with limited test kits) may drift quite far from tap water, now even that 25% water change may be significant.

Some fish are also more sensitive to the mechanical act of water changes, tank maintenance, external vibrations/noises ...
 
Another Phil said:
green staining around the hot tap
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Generally this is nothing to do with copper pipes, occurs with plastic piping as well, but is due to dezincifcation of the "non water board compliant" parts in the brass in taps (or other fittings). This is seen on very old taps as well as more modern Chinese cheap taps (and fittings), the hot soft water dissolves the zinc in the brass allowing the remaining copper to be attacked. Easily fixed by using resistant brass (talks about arsenic preventing it, but I assume not in drinking water :yuck:) or stainless steel.

http://hghouston.com/resources/mate...nd-copper-alloys/brasses/dezincification.aspx
 
ian_m said:
Here you go 22 aquariums wiped out due to emergency chloramine.
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/410456-22-aquariums-wiped-out/

Also just reading that HMA filters may not work on chloramine as well. The HMA carbon filter breaks chloramine to chlorine and ammonia, chlorine get absorbed but ammonia passes straight through, so recommendation with HMA filter is to always use Amquel+ to remove excess ammonia on filtered water.
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Sorry but what i´ve read is this:

Basically, Scottish Water used to add chlorine to the water, but a few years ago they realised if they added ammonia....yes....AMMONIA!!! then they didnt need to add as much chlorine and they could provide better drinking water!
 
alto said:
Much depends on the health of your fish & some species are definitely more sensitive to fluctuating parametres than others - not sure how much this is inherent in the fish & how much is a reaction to the manner in which we keep them (strange (inappropriate?) foods, bright lights, extreme space limitations, "dirty" water, enforced interactions with non-compatible ie stressful tankmates etc, etc).
Generally a healthy (thriving) fish is well able to deal with single stressors, but start compiling the stressors & fish pathogens increase dramatically (even before we recognise signs of disease) which means fewer resources left for absorbing the impact of temperature changes, pH changes, chemical challenges (not just the basic ammonia, chlorine, nitrite, nitrate etc that most consider).

If you do frequent 25% water changes, it's often possible to ignore balancing of new vs old water; perform 70% water changes (especially over a short interval, think python system & 10 min total time) & fewer fish are going to thrive longterm with these fluctuations (part of this fish response may be due to impact on the cycle bacteria) - don't forget that ammonia/chlorine/nitrite/nitrate (& so on) damage is often permanent, so over time, damage becomes cumulative.
If you do infrequent water changes, then tank water parametres (not just the few we might measure with limited test kits) may drift quite far from tap water, now even that 25% water change may be significant.

Some fish are also more sensitive to the mechanical act of water changes, tank maintenance, external vibrations/noises ...
Click to expand...


For instance.. I don´t do a 50% waterchange as regarding instrutions from most users of "Ei" fert. Cause i always thought as you mentioned. It´s quite a large amount in one time.. and i don´t believe that would do anygood.. changing parameters so abruptly. And in the summer i change three times a week cause of heat and evaporation.

I do a 30% WC on Wednesday and more 30% on Sunday. It just take a couple of minutes :) Simple.
 
Years ago I had a tank with rainbow fish and harlequins & Cory's, water changes used to be matched to 26 degree's, one day the heater failed n the tank temp dropped to 21,
Lost all the rainbow fish and harlequins,

Since then I do cool not cold water changes, I think the fish get used to it, temp drops 4 degree's sometimes, used to send my Cory's into a breeding frenzy,
I'm sure in nature water temperatures fluctuate,
However now
My Discus tank drops 2 degree's during the water change, sets them off laying eggs, oops,


Can you guys get Hma units over there?
Wish I had discovered them before I kept Discus,
 
Paulo Soares said:
Basically, Scottish Water used to add chlorine to the water, but a few years ago they realised if they added ammonia....yes....AMMONIA!!! then they didnt need to add as much chlorine and they could provide better drinking water!
Click to expand...
No the guy was confusing chloramine with ammonia. Scottish water injected chloramine into the water supply to sterilise the water/pipes after a burst pipe, this is very common all around the world (including the Netherlands) if there is ever any chance of contamination of the water during water main repair work. The guy who lost his fish, just preheated and air bubbled his water 24hours before use to remove chlorine (would have also removed ammonia if present as well, so his ammonia theory is clearly wrong), which is fine, but has absolutely no effect on chloramine, as he found out. Also bare in mind carbon filters are not sufficient to remove the effects of chloramine (will work fine on chlorine), in fact can make it worse as break chloramine down to chlorine and ammonia. The chlorine is absorbed but not the ammonia, so further filtration or chemical methods are required.

So, unless you test your water before use, note that most chlorine test kits do not register chloramine, just use dechlorinator to be 100% safe. Prime and sodium thiosulphate don't cost much.
 
Martin in China said:
The water quality here in China is always fluctuating, I always use prime just to be on the safe side, I also always match water temp. as I seem to have read this and I change 50% of my water in 30 minutes or less (300 liter tank). So you guys think that I don't need to do this?
Click to expand...

Chinese tap water is, from what I know, ranging from bad to outright dangerous for your health. I'd definitely always use conditioner. A 50% change in 30 minutes is a big temperature shock so I'd do some temp matching.
 
Well ok.. altough in Portugal never heard anything regarding problems concerning the water is no big deal to introduce an anti CL. ;)
No arm doing so probably i´m gonna start doing it.
Safer to prevent than let it be.. you have a point.

Compliments
 
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