Is this diatom and am I doing ok?

[John q]

Please can someone help me out and give me some ideas as to what is off?

Sorry to hear things aren't improving Stephen.

Looking at those latest pictures I can't help but think these issues are CO2 related, but I could well be wrong.
Assuming you still dose 2ml of specialized every day (especially after a water change) and considering you have amazonia aqua soil I'm sceptical lack of ferts is the problem.
Did you have any luck increasing the flow, is there any noticeable difference regards the movement of plants/co2 bubbles circulating around the tank.

You stated earlier the ph just before the lights go out, what's the ph just before the lights come on.
Is the light still at 50%?
And final question, do you have a picture of the floating plants.

 

[_Maq_]

How do I know it the co2 is reaching the carpets ?

Why do the carpet plants cover densely the substrate and don't grow up like the others? Have you ever asked this question?
The answer is that they collect CO2 from microbial respiration in the substrate. Densely covering the substrate not to miss a bit of it.

Water is showing high levels of nitrites

That seems to confirm my suspicion that you have too much organics in your substrate as well as in the water column. Microbes proliferate and oxygen consumption is high. Nitrifying bacteria are autotrophs who lose in competition for oxygen with heterotrophs. Nitrification is hindered. Ammonia & nitrites may rise up.
Suggestions: Several major water changes during next several days. Oxygenation. Activated carbon or Purigen in the filter.

 

[Stephen swan]

pH is 7.4 before co2
pH is 6.4 after co2 has been on
I’ve turned my light up to 60-80%
I am more inclined to think that the water hardness is causing the plants not to uptake nutrients and co2 .
I’m also worried about the livestock in the tank because today I’ve noticed fish gasping for air and like I said nitrite is showing.
These are all easy plants so shouldn’t be suffering like this .
I planted some new Monte Carlo on Saturday and most of it has rotted within 5 days and the bit that’s left has white to pale green colour . I have taken some of the floating plants out because I was worried it was blocking all the light so the surface is 25% covered with floaters

 

[_Maq_]

I’ve noticed fish gasping for air

Like I said: Oxygen deficit.

I am more inclined to think that the water hardness is causing the plants not to uptake nutrients and co2 .

That's a nonsense. Do as you wish, mate.

 

[Stephen swan]

Why do the carpet plants cover densely the substrate and don't grow up like the others? Have you ever asked this question?
The answer is that they collect CO2 from microbial respiration in the substrate. Densely covering the substrate not to miss a bit of it.

That seems to confirm my suspicion that you have too much organics in your substrate as well as in the water column. Microbes proliferate and oxygen consumption is high. Nitrifying bacteria are autotrophs who lose in competition for oxygen with heterotrophs. Nitrification is hindered. Ammonia & nitrites may rise up.
Suggestions: Several major water changes during next several days. Oxygenation. Activated carbon or Purigen in the filter.

So what is the answer ? Apart from doing water changes, I’ve been doing daily water changes for 7 weeks now.
Sorry but your scientific knowledge isn’t giving me insight into what is wrong and what I need to fix it .

 

[_Maq_]

Low CO2 does not kill plants. Low O2 does.
All aquasoils be damned. They are full of organics and generate high oxygen consumption.
I've already said my suggestions. Turn off CO2 and oxygenate.

 

[Stephen swan]

Low CO2 does not kill plants. Low O2 does.
All aquasoils be damned. They are full of organics and generate high oxygen consumption.
I've already said my suggestions. Turn off CO2 and oxygenate.

How do you suggest I oxygenate ? Water changes , air stone . Move Lilly pipe to surface ??
Turn off co2 for how long? Until plants recover ?
What about lighting and ferts ?
Should I turn lights down ? Should I stop dosing ?

 

[_Maq_]

How do you suggest I oxygenate ? Water changes , air stone . Move Lilly pipe to surface ??

Whatever you have at hand. Myself, I'm using venturi. Air stone would help, too. Moving surface by whatever means helps, too.

Turn off co2 for how long? Until plants recover ?

I suppose you are not overdosing CO2. (Yet maybe you are?) CO2 will be quickly leaving water while you're oxygenating. So it's not a remedy, just to avoid injecting CO2 in vain.

Should I turn lights down ? Should I stop dosing ?

These are secondary issues. I'd suggest keep lighting in the mid-range and quit dosing for a while.
What I have learnt about plants is this: There's never CO2 deficit that would kill the plants. Nutrition deficit kills pretty slowly. Oxygen deficit kills in hours.

 

[Stephen swan]

Whatever you have at hand. Myself, I'm using venturi. Air stone would help, too. Moving surface by whatever means helps, too.

I suppose you are not overdosing CO2. (Yet maybe you are?) CO2 will be quickly leaving water while you're oxygenating. So it's not a remedy, just to avoid injecting CO2 in vain.

These are secondary issues. I'd suggest keep lighting in the mid-range and quit dosing for a while.
What I have learnt about plants is this: There's never CO2 deficit that would kill the plants. Nutrition deficit kills pretty slowly. Oxygen deficit kills in hours.

Well that makes sense cause these new plants have died within days, but what is causing the issues?

 

[_Maq_]

It always happens with newly planted plants because they get damaged and leach organic compounds. But the case is much more severe if you use 'aquasoil' containing easily degradable organic matter = food for microbes. They eat and BREATHE. They breed and attack the plants.

 

[Stephen swan]

I have placed an airstone near the intake and have completed large water change.
I’ve dimmed the lights down to 50%.
I disturbed the soil on Saturday when replanting , wonder if this has caused issues

 

[PARAGUAY]

Going off your picture l think it's a light /CO2 issue not your fertiliser which is tropica specialised which has all 14 essential nutrients. If your lighting is to high and your CO2 inconsistent the plants suffer.and algae takes over Did you add plenty of stem plants? Add a lot more you could let them float. I would keep up with water changes and try to get ripple of surface movement
After a soil disturbance adding a small internal filter for 24 hours with filter floss helps. Also sorry you've had these issues but do things slowly and good luck

 

[Stephen swan]

The new plants dying off so quick makes me suspicious that it’s not light or co2 related .
I have had lights Running at max 70% intensity and good amount of co2 going in .
New plants that went in on Saturday have took a beating which why Mac suggested that it’s rotting organics causing lack of oxygen and spikes in nitrites.
But I’m still not sure what I am doing wrong and what to do in the long run.
The future of this tank isn’t looking very good to be honest.
I thought a good quality light, co2 , good substrate, decent ferts and plenty of maintenance would see this tank bloom but it’s been far from enjoyable so far and the most demotivating thing is I am totally unsure of what is going wrong and how to fix it

 

[PARAGUAY]

Not trying be negative about high end lighting but many grew plants just fine with t8s fluorescents and later t5 a single tube enough. and still used widely If your convinced CO2 is ok, try verify moving the drop checker in different areas of tank. Bit concerned about new plants degrading that fast were they really healthy. @_Maq_ will know more than me about substrate science.Initially seemed like a diatom issue not melt. @John q asked for pic of the floating plants which could help. If it's defiency it would indicate

 

[_Maq_]

I disturbed the soil on Saturday when replanting , wonder if this has caused issues

Yes, very likely.

 

[_Maq_]

But I’m still not sure what I am doing wrong and what to do in the long run.

It's the substrate. Experienced hobbyists can handle it by patience and many water changes. You've probably planted your tank too early.
Substrates of this kind are full of nutrients, but also organic matter. That's the core of the problem. I would never recommend aquasoils to anyone, perhaps with the exception of advanced scapers who know what to expect and how to handle it.

 

[The Miniaturist]

So how does this not happen to everyone using these substrates @_Maq_ , is it down to the pH, water hardness or something else?
I've used Tropica soil for years, even swapped it out for their substrate capped with sand & only had a few crypt leaves melt. You would have thought with my basic equipment & small water changes I'd have had a disaster.
@Stephen swan seems to have set everything up no differently from the way other aquarists set up high tech tanks, yet there is still  something not right, no wonder he's becoming disheartened.

 

[Stephen swan]

 

[_Maq_]

So how does this not happen to everyone using these substrates @_Maq_ , is it down to the pH, water hardness or something else?

Frankly, I don't know. I can only guess. There are several points to consider:
(1) Soils from different sources differ from each other. Maybe even soils branded all the same (to hold customers to the brand name) evolve/innovate somehow during time.
(2) I would not underestimate the stuff connected with in-vitro plants. If you don't wash them of all the agar, you invite trouble. Also, in theory, in-vitro plants are free of pests, but we know the reality, it's not always so, and sometimes the killer is invisible but already present. Lately, @Simon Cole informed me of another bunch of possible problems connected with using phytohormones during in-vitro cultivation.
(3) Many microbes reflect pH somehow. In general, pH between 7 and 8 is considered best for breeding unspecified bacteria. Yet there are exemptions, specialists... and then consider all their possible combinations!
(4) Microbes remain quite mysterious, all the same. Including protists and microalgae. They sometimes appear and then disappear for reasons we can hardly discern. I think it's partially subject to pure chance, too. A new tank is an uncolonized land to them, full of promises. Those which arrive first, proliferate quickly, facing little competition. Depending on which ones they are, they somehow influence their environment for a long time after. Can you get the point? Both cows and hares eat the grass, but their impact on the rest of the world (biotope) is different. After a period of time, all meadows develop complete and balanced fauna, not only cows and hares, but also rodents, foxes, wolves, falcons... The system gets complete and stabilized. But it takes time.

So, I truly don't know. Even with carefully washed silica sand and patient cycling without plants, tank starts are often difficult and I suffer painful losses. Hell, I do! I'm not the kind of wizard who solved these troubles once and for all. But experience taught me to be always wary of organic pollutants. I support their faster degradation by oxygenation & water current, I often apply activated carbon or Purigen, and of course, water changes are a must, the more so the younger the tank is. Only after roughly 6 to 12 months things usually get somehow 'settled'.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

After a period of time, all meadows develop complete and balanced fauna, not only cows and hares, but also rodents, foxes, wolves, falcons... The system gets complete and stabilized. But it takes time.

That would be my point as well, basically <"good things come to those who wait"> and <"diversity brings both stability and resilience">. It is partially because I'm <"incredibly lazy"> and it gives me an escape clause when I haven't carried out maintenance etc.

This is what <"Dr Stephan Tanner"> has to say, I have a <"lot of time for Dr Tanner">:

......... Water filtration is teamwork by the members of the substrate microbial community from all domains of life. This is an important conclusion, both for freshwater and marine habitats. The different players form a food web, where most organisms cannot exist alone but are interdependent. The microbial community varies greatly depending on the availability of foods, pore sizes, and substrates. Soil biofiltration is therefore very plastic, meaning it can cope with a variety of conditions. However, one feature is common. Natural layers of biofiltration are usually undisturbed for longer periods of time (many weeks and months). In nature, no one squeezes out the debris or rinses the media on a weekly schedule. .......

Along <"with inertia"> I tend to work on the <"three strikes and your out"> principle for all of plants, fish and tank management techniques.

cheers Darrel