Just started with EI dosing

[aquagenetics]

Hey all,

So on alot of yours advice i started now since recently with EI dosing (1 week), i ordered it from a dutch website, that also gave you a recipe on how to make the 2 ferts (Macro and Micro)
however i tested the water and the parameters seem quite low ? (is this because of my plants uptake ?)
i am using Tropica aquasoil.

on this site they also told me to dose alternatively so Macro 40ml, and then next day micro 60ml, and also 2 rest days (i didnt follow this because water parameters were low.)

- Water parameters - (Yes i know test kits suck but wanted to give a little bit of more info.)
po4 0,5 (i think this has to be like in the 2 range)
Nitrate 5-10 (should also be higher i think ? )
Ammonia 0,0 mg/l (So thats not leaking from the aquasoil)

The recipe they gave me is :
(Macro)
432ML osmosis water (i used boiled tap water and let that cool down a bit)
35,24 gr KNO3
2,76 gr KH2PO4
16,04 gr K2SO4

Lights im using is : 2x juwel helialux spectrum 8 hours of light. (with rampup)
RED 100 %
Green : 100%
Blue : 80%
White : 100%

Maybe to much light ?
i thought this was possible, if you inject enough co2 / nutrients.

- CO2 -
JBL PROFLORA inline diffusor.

Filtration : JBL CRISTALPROFI E1500

(Micro)
432ML osmosis water (i used boiled tap water and let that cool down a bit)
10 gr tenso cocktail (Trace elements) more info what it contains here : Sporenelementen (Tenso cocktail)

Pictures of my aquarium : and also the algae issues.

Rotala waliichii looks great, but the algae is between it i dont know what this is.
same with the pogostemon stellatus erectus, and the bucephalandra totally covered with it.

All tips / Help is welcome thanks alot! i want this aquarium to be a success

 

[John q]

The recipe they gave me is :
(Macro)
432ML osmosis water (i used boiled tap water and let that cool down a bit)
35,24 gr KNO3
2,76 gr KH2PO4
16,04 gr K2SO4

@Zeus. Will confirm ~ ferts look good to me at 40ml doses in a 240l tank, each dose will yield kn03 8.34ppm per dose, po4 0.74 p/dose. Assume you dose this 3x per week.

Water parameters - (Yes i know test kits suck but wanted to give a little bit of more info.)
po4 0,5 (i think this has to be like in the 2 range)
Nitrate 5-10 (should also be higher i think ? )

Pretty much matches what your adding on a daily basis, ditch the test kit, it's not needed anymore.

Maybe to much light ?

Hate to say it but suspect this is the culprit.

thought this was possible, if you inject enough co2 / nutrients.

Might be worth re checking flow around the tank and possibly do a ph profile.

 

[Cor]

I would not recommend it.
You are now fertilizing according to EI, which means that extra nutrition comes into the water. The algae will take advantage of that.
I would go back to the lean-dose approach and dim your light for now

 

[Wookii]

I would not recommend it.
You are now fertilizing according to EI, which means that extra nutrition comes into the water. The algae will take advantage of that.
I would go back to the lean-dose approach and dim your light for now

I think that misconception was ruled out 10 years ago. Excess ferts have no bearing on algae.

 

[MichaelJ]

If you do 50% weekly WC in your 240 L tank I would do:

1.5 gram of KNO3 3 times a week yielding 22ppm of NO3
0.25 gram of KH2PO4 3 times a week 4.5 ppm of PO4
2 grams of K2SO4 3 times a week 22 ppm of K

It's not critical that you get the grams right down to the last decimal point (hence the name Estimative Index), as long you have enough of everything and do not grossly overdose then its all good.

Personally, I frontload everything, and been doing that for a long time when I do my WC just to make it easier. And no, the fertilizer you dose will not cause algae. Lack of fertilizer, poor application of CO2 and too much light (if not matched by proper CO2 levels) will cause algae however. As mentioned by @John q , look into your light intensity, do a pH profile, and possibly look into your flow/circulation situation.

What water source are you using? Do you remineralize? are you having enough Mg and Ca in your water?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Cor]

I think that misconception was ruled out 10 years ago. Excess ferts have no bearing on algae.

No it wasn't.
Excess ferts will support the algae when it's present

 

[Wookii]

No it wasn't.
Excess ferts will support the algae when it's present

Lol . . . erm . . . yes it has - it’s been disproven many thousands of times.

Algae is present in a tank ALL THE TIME, and ferts from the leanest of lean dosing, even zero fert dosing (i.e. those generate by the tank itself from decay etc), are more than sufficient to support algae, which are at levels well below those that are required to support higher order plants.

Algae issues in aquariums are almost always a direct result if insufficient ferts (within which I include CO2), either through insufficient dosing, insufficient distribution, or excess lighting (which results in the first two).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

No it wasn't.
Excess ferts will support the algae when it's present

I look at this another way, I don't differentiate between plants and algae, <"they are all "plants">.

Some plants have fast potential growth rate and will grow very quickly in nutrient rich conditions. Some of these plants <"are algae"> and some of <"these plants are higher plants">.

.... Invasive macrophyte Myriophyllum aquaticum is capable of assimilating nutrients from both the sediments and the water column......Results showed that concentrations of total nitrogen, total phosphorus and chlorophyll a in the water column increased in the treatment groups, but decreased slightly in the control group (nutrient-poor sediment and no nutrient addition). Sediment type had a significant effect on the growth M. aquaticum, while there were no significant effects of nutrient loading levels and the interactions between the two factors. Mean relative growth rate, mean plant height, mean stem diameter, the number of lateral branches and roots in the nutrient-rich sediment treatments were 1.6, 1.2, 1.6, 3.2 and 5.9 folds greater than in the nutrient-poor sediment treatments, respectively ......

Some plants are <"turned up to eleven plants"> and will only grew successfully when there is an abundance of light and nutrients. Other plants (both algae and higher plants) grew in <"nutrient poor conditions">, mainly because they are excluded from more nutrient rich conditions by plants with higher potential growth rates.

Personally I'm going <"to grow plants"> that will <"survive in low nutrient conditions"> in <"low nutrient conditions">. If you like they are "turned up to three plants" growing at a very gentle simmer.

Cheers Darrel

 

[ceg4048]

No it wasn't.
Excess ferts will support the algae when it's present

Hello,
As pointed out by Wookii, algae really do not care how much nutrients are in the water. If that were the case then every EI dosed tank would suffer algal blooms, so clearly this concept of nutrients causing algae is false.

- Water parameters - (Yes i know test kits suck but wanted to give a little bit of more info.)

Exactly, so why even bother to pay attention to sucky numbers? You won't even know how to respond to the measurements, because they suck.

The recipe they gave me is :
(Macro)
432ML osmosis water (i used boiled tap water and let that cool down a bit)
35,24 gr KNO3
2,76 gr KH2PO4
16,04 gr K2SO4

Again, why are you boiling water? This makes life more complicated.
Additionally, why are you even making a mixture? Your tank is large enough so that you can simply add the powders directly to the tank.

Lights im using is : 2x juwel helialux spectrum 8 hours of light. (with rampup)
RED 100 %
Green : 100%
Blue : 80%
White : 100%

Maybe to much light ?
i thought this was possible, if you inject enough co2 / nutrients.

It is possible that the lighting is excessive. The plants need to have access to nutrients/CO2 but just because you are injecting lots of CO2 this does not automatically mean that the plants have access. CO2 technique is more tan just how far you turn the dial on your regulator. The timing of the CO2 is important and so is the method you use to dissolve it and the way you distribute the gas to the tank. Most of the CO2 you inject is lost through the top of the tank. That is why flow/distribution is important.

Rotala waliichii looks great, but the algae is between it i dont know what this is.
same with the pogostemon stellatus erectus, and the bucephalandra totally covered with it.

The brown fluffy algae is diatomic algae which usually appears shortly after the tank is started. It is made worse by the use of excessive lighting and is not really dependent on nutrients or CO2.

The Anubias is suffering from Green Spot Algae (GSA) and is related to any combination of poor CO2 and poor PO4. Anubias is a slow growing plant and does not really like a lot of light when it is submerged. This is another case where strong lighting does more damage than good.

There is also green filamentous algae growing on the wood. This is a sign of:
A. Poor CO2
B. Too much light

Your second photo shows a plant covered in diatomic algae, but it also seems to be mixed with another algae that may very well be Black Beard Algae (BBA). I'm not sure from that angle.

What you should do is to remove the brown diatomic algae. You can use a toothbrush and twirl it around to pull it off the plants. You should also help your plants to survive by lowering the maximum intensity of the light to about 30%.
Perform large water changes (50% or more) 2X -3X per week.

Cheers,

 

[aquagenetics]

Hate to say it but suspect this is the culprit.

I thought you could have alot of light if nutrients / co2 were in check.

I would not recommend it.
You are now fertilizing according to EI, which means that extra nutrition comes into the water. The algae will take advantage of that.
I would go back to the lean-dose approach and dim your light for now

i thought this was ruled out by tom barr, that it doesnt cause more algae, i've read its the other way around if u dose to less. because algae needs less nutrients to thrive then regular plants.

I think that misconception was ruled out 10 years ago. Excess ferts have no bearing on algae.

i thought so aswell.

1.5 gram of KNO3 3 times a week yielding 22ppm of NO3
0.25 gram of KH2PO4 3 times a week 4.5 ppm of PO4
2 grams of K2SO4 3 times a week 22 ppm of K

how would i translate this to a recipe, that i can make liquid ferts from

What water source are you using? Do you remineralize? are you having enough Mg and Ca in your water?

i'am using regular tap water, as thats pretty decent in the netherlands. i dont know about the mg and ca in the water.

 

[aquagenetics]

Exactly, so why even bother to pay attention to sucky numbers? You won't even know how to respond to the measurements, because they suck.

i did this to try to see if im adding more nutrients to the tank now, because i'am new with EI wanted to see if the phosphate,nitrate etc is higher now.

Again, why are you boiling water? This makes life more complicated.
Additionally, why are you even making a mixture? Your tank is large enough so that you can simply add the powders directly to the tank.

i boiled the water, because the recipe asked for osmosis water, i didnt have that at home so i read i could also boil water and then let that cool down.
as in adding the powders directly to the tank i never done this, i am completely new with EI first i was using AIO, so i just made some liquid ferts according to that recipe.
this is also more handy for me, then weighing the powders every time. before adding to the tank.

It is possible that the lighting is excessive. The plants need to have access to nutrients/CO2 but just because you are injecting lots of CO2 this does not automatically mean that the plants have access. CO2 technique is more tan just how far you turn the dial on your regulator. The timing of the CO2 is important and so is the method you use to dissolve it and the way you distribute the gas to the tank. Most of the CO2 you inject is lost through the top of the tank. That is why flow/distribution is important.

i let the co2 come on around 3 hours before light goes on, so my dropchecker is lime green, i inject the co2 through an inline diffusor.

What you should do is to remove the brown diatomic algae. You can use a toothbrush and twirl it around to pull it off the plants. You should also help your plants to survive by lowering the maximum intensity of the light to about 30%.
Perform large water changes (50% or more) 2X -3X per week.

i will do that i have one question about the WC do i have to dose again after ? i will lower the lights a bit, i think to 30% is a little bit much though, i would still like to see the plants pearl.
here is the current light profile, i think i will reduce the light by 10 % every day. till i dont see them pearling anymore, then increase them a bit.


Thanks alot everyone!

and here is the setting

 

[Andy Pierce]

Is pearling really a thing? I do EI dosing and CO2 injection but I've never noticed anything I'd call 'pearling' on the plants, which otherwise seem really healthy. If I turn up the light intensity, I get GSA rather than pearling. If your plants look healthy I'd call it a win so I'm not sure it's useful to aim for pearling rather than healthy plants and reasonably controlled algae.

 

[MichaelJ]

how would i translate this to a recipe, that i can make liquid ferts from

Just dose the compounds straight into the tank. No reason to go through the hoops and loops of making a mixture with boiled water etc. I mix my weekly dosing of NPK compounds straight into my WC water, but could just as well dose it straight into the tank after the WC - wont matter either way.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MichaelJ]

If that were the case then every EI dosed tank would suffer algal blooms, so clearly this concept of nutrients causing algae is false.

Exactly. I am running both my tanks with an abundance of NPK (way, way more than my low tech tanks will ever need... in part to confirm what you, among others, have been telling me...) zero algae to speak of... Of course, there are algae but nothing that meets the eye in an obtrusive way or take away from the health of the plants.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MichaelJ]

Is pearling really a thing?

Its not a good measure of much apparently. Personally, I never liked it from an aesthetic point of view - plants engulfed in air bubbles? Not sure what the aesthetic draw is with that. Hey you can even get sewage to pearl

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MichaelJ]

and here is the setting

View attachment 175907

The RGB ratios doesn't really matter... just choose a "color" that make the tank look good to your eyes, and lower the intensity as mentioned above.

 

[John q]

I thought you could have alot of light if nutrients / co2 were in check.

Running a high light tank is possible, but to do it successfully requires a great deal of skill and you really need to be sure all the plants are receiving the co2 and nutrients that the high light demands, you also need to ensure tank maintenance is on point (water changes, filter maintenance, removal of organic waste etc)

I took this quote from another thread.

Lights : 2x juwel helialux spectrum (120 watt total)

That's a lot of light.

I also watched this video that was posted in the same thread.
Post in thread 'Juwel Rio 240 Planted Tank' Juwel Rio 240 Planted Tank

Not trying to bash you mate but I suspect the issues you are having are related to poor flow around the tank, the light intensity you have is creating a co2 demand that you can't supply to all the plants.

Lower the light intensity and work on increasing that flow.

 

[Courtneybst]

Again, why are you boiling water? This makes life more complicated.

Not to hijack the thread, but is boiling water for EI mixtures unnecessary? I've been doing it for about 10 years as that's what it says on the recipe but I would love to omit that part if it's not needed! As you said, it makes life more complicated.

Personally, I make the mixture rather than dry salts because it's more convenient in my setup.

 

[Wookii]

Not to hijack the thread, but is boiling water for EI mixtures unnecessary? I've been doing it for about 10 years as that's what it says on the recipe but I would love to omit that part if it's not needed! As you said, it makes life more complicated.

Personally, I make the mixture rather than dry salts because it's more convenient in my setup.

I may be wrong, but my understanding was that the boiling was to reduce/eliminate the bacteria in the water so it doesn’t spoil the solution if kept for longer periods.

Though you can probably avoid the boiling if you add potassium sorbate to the mix instead.

 

[Courtneybst]

I may be wrong, but my understanding was that the boiling was to reduce/eliminate the bacteria in the water so it doesn’t spoil the solution if kept for longer periods.

Though you can probably avoid the boiling if you add potassium sorbate to the mix instead.

Interesting! Thanks.