Just wondering...

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by LondonDragon, 26 Mar 2008.

  1. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    ... if it would be best to go all dry ferts and not use an liquids.
    At the moment I use the following:

    Dry:
    KN03 (Potassium Nitrate) 1.4gm 3x a week
    KH2P04 (Mono Potassium Phosphate) 0.3gm 3x a week
    K2S04 (Potassium Sulfate) 0.4gm 3x a week

    Liquid:
    Tropica Plant Nutrition - 5ml 3x a week
    Kent Botanica Fe - 10 drops 3x a week

    50% weekly water change

    Could I replace the liquids with a dry trace mix?

    Many thanks
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    The trace mix on AE's website has the following in it:

    Boron 1.06%
    Copper 0.23%
    Iron 8.2%
    Manganese 1.82%
    Molybdenum 0.15%
    Zinc 1.16%

    Fe is Iron right? (Been a while since I looked at a table of elements!)
     
  3. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes its Iron, so I could just buy that and stop using the TPN and Fe liquid and will have the same effects?
     
  4. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

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    It should do, I use the AE trace and have not complaints about it. Its loads cheaper too, loads.

    Sam
     
  5. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes thats the main reason I want to move over to dry, price wise there is no comparisson.
    I like to keep Amano shrimp and Red Cherry shrimp, is the copper on this going to be a problem?

    Thanks for the help guys
     
  6. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Should do. TPN is basically your trace mix. Dosing the AE dry powder should be a perfectly good replacement.
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Dragon,
    The Potassium Sulfate is completely unnecessary if you are already dosing Potassium Nitrate. There is more value in possibly dosing Magnesium via MgSO4 (Epsom Salts). This depends on your tap water though. I now recommend MgSO4 as standard practice for dosing because JamesC showed how even hard tap water could be low in this essential trace nutrient. The AE trace mix does not have Mg but the Tropica TPN does. This is one advantage of the TPN but I think powdered traces still works out cheaper especially if you ditch the K2SO4. Check Epsom Salts prices at Boots, Tesco or Garden Direct.

    Cheers,
     
  8. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    Out of interest, is there a test kit (sorry, dirty words :D) for testing the Mg in your tap water? I live in a hard water area, and I don't dose Mg as I didn't really think I needed too (not based on any scientific knowledge of course). With my new regime we were discussing the other day, do I need to be dosing Mg?

    I take it Epsom salts are a direct replacement for the MgS04 on AE's website?

    Thanks :)

    Steve.

    Edit: Just looked it up on the Boot's website, to quote: "Active Ingredient: Magnesium Sulphate Ph Eur 100%"

    Guess that answers the question... and boy is it cheaper than AE! 500g for £1.49 at Boots compared to £7.99 at AE.
     
  9. Themuleous

    Themuleous Member

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    The AE trace is perfectly safe with shrimp :)

    Sam
     
  10. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    There aren't to my knowledge any easily available Mg test kits but there are test kits for GH and calcium. As GH is made up of Mg and Ca you can calculate the Mg if the GH and Ca values are known. More info in this topic - http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=526

    James
     
  11. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for all the helps guys :)

    I just placed an order for the Trace Mix from AE and going to Boots today to buy the salts.
    Which amount would you recommend dosing for a 125l tank?

    Guess I will also ditch the K2SO4, might keep it going until it runs out.
     
  12. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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  13. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Ceg, just been looking at the article and I have come up with the following dosage for my tank.
    Just want to make sure that it is reasonable accurate or if I need more or less of one or the other.

    Macro:
    KNO3 1/4 tsp (1.2 grams)
    KH2P04 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams)
    MgS04 1/2 tsp (2.3 grams)

    Micro:
    Trace 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams)
    K2S04 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams) (optional)

    each dosed 3 times a week and alternate days for macro and micro.
    with a 50% water change and dose macro after water change.

    Does this sound reasonable?

    Tried to purchase the Epson Salts at 3 boots stores and all sold out including online :bored:
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Location:
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    Hi Dragon,
    Yes the numbers look more or less in the ballpark except I would probably double the trace. If 3 different Boots are nil stock on Epsom Salts that means either there are a lot of planted tank enthusiasts ...or a lot of people with tired feet. :p Try the pharmacy at Tesco or someplace like that.

    Once again, remember that this is all an estimate and you may find that you need more or that you can get away with less depending on factors such as what nutrients are present in your tap, the robustness of your filter output, fish stocking levels, feeding practices and plant biomass. There is no need, other than economics to worry about having more than you need, but watch carefully for signs of deficiency of the two critical macros N and P. If you start to see BGA then immediately double the KNO3. If you start to see GSA then immediately double the KH2PO4.

    As stated in the article, inferior CO2 will cause problems so you want to ensure that this is not a weak link.

    Cheers,
     
  15. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I have half a bottle of TPN+ which I am using until I get my pressurised CO2, when that arrives I will switch to complete dry ferts.
    Do I need to mix them with water? in the past I just drop the dry ferts inside the Juwel internal filter, or is that not a good thing to do? Seems to have worked.

    Again many thanks for your compreensive answers, its been really helpfull :)
     
  16. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Hi,
    Glad you find the info useful. :D I open my canopy and sprinkle the powders directly on the water's surface. I wouldn't even bother to go through the trouble of finding a "special area" in the tank in which to dump them such as the internal filter, but yes, it's all the same. Whatever is easiest for you... :D

    Cheers,
     
  17. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,272
    Location:
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    I will keep dumping them in the internal filter then, what I was thinking is as they disolve they great spread with the water straight away, but probably makes no diference.

    Tried a couple of Boots stores this morning and again sold out! Whats going on?? lol

    Is this the same thing?

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/500g-100-Pure-Eps ... dZViewItem

    Thanks :)
     
  18. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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  19. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Started dosing complete dry ferts for just over a week, and I am getting some problems now.
    Some of the leaves are getting tiny holes in them, mainly older leaves and also I am now getting some tiny hair algae on slow growing plants and on my glosso. Any ideas?
     

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