Jute Fibre, Plaster and Polyester?

zozo

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I'm brainstorming about creating a pond... :) While researching options and several techniques i also researched polyester coating techniques.
Now i came across a shop that sells complete polyester kits to create ponds and write how-to tutorials about it. In one of them, they explained using Jute fibre cloth and plaster on the bare ground to create the pond shape and then coat this with a 4 to 6 layer glass fibre cloth and polyester resin...

Theoretically, it sounds like an awesome idea, you would be able to create very interesting shapes and contours and coat it smoothly with polyester.

Question is, anybody familiar with this way of pond building?

I knew about the Polyester or Epoxy resin in concrete en masoned pond building... But using Jute cloth and Plaster was a first... :) And i find it a very intriguing idea...
 
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I'm brainstorming about creating a pond... :) While researching options and several techniques i also researched polyester coating techniques.
Now i came across a shop that sells complete polyester kits to create ponds and write how-to tutorials about it. In one of them, they explained using Jute fibre cloth and plaster on the bare ground to create the pond shape and then coat this with a 4 to 6 layer glass fibre cloth and polyester resin...

Theoretically, it sounds like an awesome idea, you would be able to create very interesting shapes and contours and coat it smoothly with polyester.

Question is, anybody familiar with this way of pond building?

I knew about the Polyester or Epoxy resin in concrete en masoned pond building... But using Jute cloth and Plaster was a first... :) And i find it a very intriguing idea...
Sounds good mate. Any links or videos.
The only way I knew of apart from bricks and mortar. Fiber glass. Obviously liners as well.

Was wood then fiber glass. Like how my
Qt grow on is built.

Love to see other ways. Mate. In your research. Is it strong enough to hold say
3000 gallons.
I googled and all I could find was fiber glassing.
I like the idea of being able to do different shapes for a pond.
Fred


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zozo

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Sounds good mate. Any links or videos.
The only way I knew of apart from bricks and mortar. Fiber glass. Obviously liners as well.

Was wood then fiber glass. Like how my
Qt grow on is built.

Love to see other ways. Mate. In your research. Is it strong enough to hold say
3000 gallons.
I googled and all I could find was fiber glassing.
I like the idea of being able to do different shapes for a pond.
Fred


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Hi Fred, I couldn't find videos nor pictures and the article is written in dutch..The site i got it from are not pond builders, they are Polyester suppliers. They likely got the idea from pond builders too i don't know...

I forgot to mention that the plastered Jute Fiber cloth should be placed as underlayment instead. They actually stated you can put fibreglass on the standard underlayment. But then you need to layer it very (at least 8 layers) thick which makes it not very cost-effective.

Thus it's only the hole in the ground that is plastered. Then on the hardened plastered underlayment 4 layers of fibreglass cloth are sufficient. It can go nowhere if there are no air pockets between soil and plaster. For regular concrete or brick 2 layers are recommended.

What i really like in this idea is, you would be able to very easily model intriguing bottom contour in different shapes and depths without any folding as you would have with liner. If you want to model an emerged island in the centre.

It all sounds like a rather solid and much cheaper solution to use this than concrete and or brick for anything bellow ground level.

I was thinking of making a small pond in the garden with 2 windows. But since I live in a rented property then making it from brick and concrete is a much too intrusive and personally also too expensive and too labour intensive undertaking. I would need to hire a team of craftsmen and order a truck full of bricks and bags of concrete etc.

Then i saw a tut about making an above-ground pond from wood planks, with short wood poles in the ground, planks on either side, dig it out inside and put a liner in it and done. Easy peasy... But liner and windows :confused: that's something with speciality again that needs a professional for a 3D liner cut and seal.

Then i came around this fiberglassing idea. Wood can easily be fiberglassed .. :) Thus above ground, a wooden frame, with window frames in it, dig it partially out inside, use that same soil to fill it up at the other end to make a shallow. Cover the soil inside the frame with the Jute cloth and plaster. And fibreglass the entire inside, seal the glass windows in and done... 👏

That would be something i could do entirely on my own if given the time... Reasonably affordable too. At a little over €40,- /m² minus the wood

I can find several fibreglass pond building recommendations in Dutch named the "Jute - Plaster Method" but can't seem to find any in English..
 
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foxfish

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I have already written on this forum about this sort of construction but yes fibreglass is very resourceful.

So there are two methods of in ground pond building that I have used to professionally form long lasting ponds.

There are limitations to the depth and the shape before other methods become more viable but for small construction wildlife style ponds rather than deep sheer sided koi ponds, plastering the excavation and fibreglassing over the plaster is a very good method.

Method one is to use fibre reinforced cement, that is made up from a strong mix of 2-1 sharp sand and cement with added polypropylene fibres, and can be used to line the excavation by plastering directly to the soil,
This is an amazing product in its own right and forms an amazingly strong casement against the soil, it can be applied up to 100mm thick in one coat making it easy to smooth out a rough dug hole.

One cured the fibre cement is extremely durable and only requires one layer of fibreglass to finish the job and form a watertight long lasting pond.

Method two uses standard sand and cement mix 4-1 and is plastered on to the ground as in method one, but normally (depending on the hole shape, size and accuracy) requires several coats to get a even flat finish.
Once dry the form will require two or three coats of fibreglass to finish the pond.

There is not much difference in cost but in my mind, method one using fibre cement and one layer of fibreglass is better.
Method one, uses the fibre cement as a structural form and the fibreglass as a sealer, methods two uses cement to make a form and fibreglass for the structural strength.

I say I prefer method one because fibreglass is susceptible to water ingress from the underside and as the fibre cement is waterproof in its own right, the fibreglass will be more protected.
However both method work very well.
 

zozo

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Thank's @foxfish ! Something to research again...

Method 1 indeed seems to be a winner, since the most expensive seems the Polyester fibre and resin. Then only 1 layer needed makes a huge difference..

Not so long ago i found this new product, also posted about here at ukaps.
https://www.ecoformeurope.co.uk/product/permacon-diy-make-concrete-waterproof/

Might be an option as well using cement and reinforce it with chicken wire and coat it with this?

My biggest concern i'm thinking about is making a transition from the wood above ground to something different bellow it.

Wood expands differntly and it might crack the polyester if it is stuck to both surfaces?

I did read about liquid rubbers that are elastic, but the long term reviews weren't that good.
 
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foxfish

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Mesh in concrete is a bit old school and you still have to use a weak cement mix.
Reinforcing fibres are much more efficient, basically very fine hair like fibres are added to a very strong cement mix.
In fact not a new concept as horse hair and lime plaster has been around for hundreds of years!

The type of job you are thinking about doing is never as easy to do in real life as it is on paper but quite possible.
What ever you use above the water will have to be very strong with very good corner joints and you will be better off using at least two layers of fibreglass matting over any wood.
Wood will always move around with varying amounts of heat and humidity and ultimately rot away!

A better way would be to form a ring or trench in the area you wish the pond to be ..example ... dig a 150mm deep by 300mm widetrench in your lawn the exact shape of your desired pond and fill the trench with fibre mix concrete . Then dig out the centre soil and line the hole with fibre mix cement. Then you can make the above ground wall from bricks or blocks or best of all shuttered fibre mix concrete on top of the ring.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1642496445?iid=141736144766
 

X3NiTH

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I think the use of Jute and Plaster is that it has a much lower ecological impact than concrete and is many more orders of magnitude more biodegradable. Jute matting is used extensively for its strength and durability for land stabilisation where there is surface erosion and it comes in many forms. Using plaster over the Jute makes a good contact surface to apply the Fibreglass, it’s equivalent to Mould making but you leave the mould in place because it’s biodegradable and once that degrades your still left with a very durable custom fibreglass pond that would be a million time easier to reset the land back to original use than using concrete.

The intricate shapes you could form using plaster would be amazing because it’s so easily carved and sanded, super easy to make changes also before fiberglassing.

:)
 

foxfish

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I think that is a interesting perspective, I guess that is not something I have never considered but as a professional pond builder I tend to advertise and build ponds that last a life time and beyond but of course you have a point should you not wish to have a permanent pond .
 

zozo

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I think the use of Jute and Plaster is that it has a much lower ecological impact than concrete and is many more orders of magnitude more biodegradable. Jute matting is used extensively for its strength and durability for land stabilisation where there is surface erosion and it comes in many forms. Using plaster over the Jute makes a good contact surface to apply the Fibreglass, it’s equivalent to Mould making but you leave the mould in place because it’s biodegradable and once that degrades your still left with a very durable custom fibreglass pond that would be a million time easier to reset the land back to original use than using concrete.

The intricate shapes you could form using plaster would be amazing because it’s so easily carved and sanded, super easy to make changes also before fiberglassing.

:)

That was exactly what i thought about it, the ease it can be shaped is unlimited... And indeed since it is rented property and if i ever have to leave it i probably have to restore everything to the original state if the landlord doesn't see any value in having a pond in the garden. That's the risk living rented, you never know what can happen, i don't foresee it that soon, but it could be i have to move next week. That's my main motivation to go as low budget as possible and something that can be restored with minimal effort. :)

Regarding durability, my life is over halfway done anyway, if i don't reach age 110... So if it lasts 15 years I'm 70 years old by then and satisfied. If by then i'm still able to enjoy it physically then any bit longer lasting is a welcome bonus.

But still many thanks for the concrete ideas :) it's very interesting and 🆒 knowledge to have at hand... I might win the lottery tonight... :D
 
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