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Larry's Glade

Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Nayr, thanks :thumbup: I hear what you're saying and ultimately you might well turn out to be right. But there is a distinction that's worth drawing between a look and a method. Naturally they often go hand in hand because the method typically limits what you can and can't grow and how it will grow.

However, I don't think it's the case that a low tech tank has to be jungle-like or not heavily scaped. I think it can be the latter but you just have to wait a hell of a long time for it to get where you want it to be. Stems can grow and do ok in this environment as you say. HC? Almost certainly not although I have seen it done (e.g. in the AGA entry I linked to above). RE: the substrate, Tom Barr in his take on the Walstad method does suggest active substrates like I've used.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods

I think this tank is likely to fail :bored: That's not too much of a disaster as it's a bit of an experiment. However, I think the method and scape combo (HC aside) won't be the cause - my impatience and lack of experience will. Should have waited longer for the filter to mature, should have added mulm to the substrate, should have planted more heavily.

Totally know where you're coming from with the moss carpet, would have looked even better than HC probably. But I wanted as much planted in the substrate as possible to feed oxygen to the bacteria.

BTW, should I remove the far left rock, at the back of tank. I'm finding it jarring.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

How is your tank now? No ammonia leach to the water column? I think you used too much of osmocote for the size of tank. I once used same in my 80L then I had to dig it all out as I been annoyed with constant ammonia at 4ppm :)
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Really :wideyed: Oh crap.

I used a teaspoon's worth. Is that how much you used?

Haven't tested ammonia yet because I expect ammonia to be leaching from the nutrasoil. Hard to judge whether the osmocote is producing a problem because I don't know how much ammonia the nutrasoil will leach.

It may be a question of judging it by time rather than amount. If there are still high levels in a couple of weeks I may have a problem.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

yes observe do not put any stock in yet, osmocote can leach for months
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

i didnt know it leached!! i havnt used it but i was thinking about it in a future scape.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

ive used it in a few scapes and not had any problems. Do a search on here for osmocote and you'll get lots of hits. Ceg has mentioned using 1-2 teaspoons per square foot so you should be ok - http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13353#p139591

Scape looks good by the way hotweldfire :thumbup: but im with nayr on the HC battle you may face but its worth giving it a go to grow it.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Thanks Stu. I agree with you both about the HC but, as you say, it's worth a go.

Any suggestions on how I can increase its chances?

-Should I be dosing? Have EI pre-mix and some ADA brighty 2 and K lying around
- Have considered adding Excel but worried it'll melt my Pellia. Anyone suggest a safe amount? Will also melt the egeria

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

hotweldfire said:
Thanks Stu. I agree with you both about the HC but, as you say, it's worth a go.

Any suggestions on how I can increase its chances?

-Should I be dosing? Have EI pre-mix and some ADA brighty 2 and K lying around
- Have considered adding Excel but worried it'll melt my Pellia. Anyone suggest a safe amount? Will also melt the egeria

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Im trying to work out how best to approach your tank! Your doing EI which requires 50% water changes every week but wanting to go low tech which prefers minimal water changes :)

Im not sure if the nutrasoil releases ammonia like aquasoil does as ive not used it before. If it does then youll be looking to do daily or every other day water changes in the first couple of weeks to remove the ammonia spike. Im doing the same on my nano at the moment.

Re the dosing I start at day 1. The HC loves brighty K (or potasium carbonate) so yes i would use it. It also loves co2 and liquid carbon but unfortunately the liquid will harm your pelia (ive previously killed some with easycarbo).

If you cant get hold of a cheap gas co2 solution which would balance the system then I would see how the HC goes for now. If it fails, buy some moss and try and run it as a low tech. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me like Ceg will be along to tell you what you actually need to do rather than my ramblings! :)

by the way, from page 1 SWMBO means - She Who Must Be Obeyed! Relevant for a lot of people in the hobby including me :D
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

stuworrall said:
Im trying to work out how best to approach your tank! Your doing EI which requires 50% water changes every week but wanting to go low tech which prefers minimal water changes :)

Sorry, I know I'm confusing everyone by saying I'm doing a low tech setup and then laying it out like a high tech one, then asking questions about using high-tech methods :?

I'm not thinking about any of these methods long-term, just considering them in the short term to give the plants a leg up whilst the tank stabilises. I'm still planning on not doing any water changes if possible so wasn't planning to use EI method of dosing, just using the EI pre-mix I have at a minimal level. In the same sort of way Tom suggests in his version of the Walstad method. So, long term, just adding a small of amount of ferts once a week.

I don't think I need to do this as the nutrasoil should provide what the plants need. However, I may start using the green brighty step 2 and K daily to help the HC out. Then wean the tank of it so I'm only dosing once a week. That shouldn't necessitate water changes, right?

stuworrall said:
Im not sure if the nutrasoil releases ammonia like aquasoil does as ive not used it before. If it does then youll be looking to do daily or every other day water changes in the first couple of weeks to remove the ammonia spike. Im doing the same on my nano at the moment.

Yep, definitely does, says so on the box. Not planning to do water changes and hoping (semi-) mature filter and lots of ammonia sponge plants will deal with the spike. Probably :crazy: I know.

stuworrall said:
Re the dosing I start at day 1. The HC loves brighty K (or potasium carbonate) so yes i would use it. It also loves co2 and liquid carbon but unfortunately the liquid will harm your pelia (ive previously killed some with easycarbo).

Short term use of easycarbo/excel would probably be what might save the HC from annihilation but I care more about the pellia because it's in between the rocks. Saying that I have been using Excel in my main tank at rec daily dose once or twice a week applied directly to algae. The pelia has been growing in that tank. So maybe very low levels, e.g. half rec daily dose a day, might be OK? Would that do the HC any favours though?
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

NeilW has kindly confirmed he dosed at 0.4ml in his 17l with no ill effects to the coral pellia so have decided to risk it. From today am dosing at 0.6ml daily. Am also adding 1ml green brighty step 2 and 1ml brighty k.

Test kit results today (for what they're worth :bored: )

NH4 - 0.8
NO2 - 2
NO3 - 40
PH - 6.9
GH - 4.48
KH - <1
PO4 - <0.1
Fe - <0.1

Slightly kicking myself for not testing on day 1. Water appears to be surprisingly soft and did expect higher ammonia and lower nitrite after only 3 days. Maybe it's cycling faster than I thought.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

sorry, i missed your reply. Yup with the easycarbo in mine i tend to not hold back with it so was most probably overdosing. If youve seen it was ok in your other tank at the levels you were dosing then it sounds fine.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

stuworrall said:
sorry, i missed your reply. Yup with the easycarbo in mine i tend to not hold back with it so was most probably overdosing. If youve seen it was ok in your other tank at the levels you were dosing then it sounds fine.

No worries mate.

OK, have filled in the back with what was left of my 5l nutrasoil tub. Jammed in a couple of pieces of large redmoor which I'm not too happy with and also added some smaller pieces hanging over the rock which I'm more happy with.

The egeria that I put in a few days ago was in a bit of a sorry state and had totally disintegrated by today. Replaced it with much healthier stuff and rearranged plants a bit. Also dropped small bits of stone I had left over on to the plateau. I think I'll tie some fissidens to the overhang wood at some point and anubias petite to the little stone. Pics as of tonight:

126111.jpg


126112.jpg


126114.jpg


Comments and critiques very welcome.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Looking nice. I'll be redoing my 25L some point when I move house in a couple of months. Got some pagoda rock outside just lying around so may well have to have a crack using it for some sort of plateu like what you've gone for since it looks nice and effective. Hows the HC doing?
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Thanks. Getting the plateau wasn't too easy as it was quite hard to get the pieces to fit together without big gaps. Had to plug the spaces with little shards and chunks I got when breaking it up. Hopefully the pellia will cover those up when it grows out.

Bit of melt on the HC but clinging on for now, doing better than I hoped. That's the least of my worries though. The egeria I put in there originally (photo above has replacement) completely disintegrated and is now littering the tank and nestling in amongst the HC. Got as much out as I could but got an algae bloom on the way no doubt.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Today's test results (with the usual pinch of salt, especially the nitrate):

NH4 - 0.2
NO2 - >3
NO3 - >100
PH - 7.5
GH - 5.6
KH - 1.1

Looks like it's cycling pretty fast.

The mass of disintegrating egeria hasn't caused the algae bloom I feared yet. I have cleaned out the filter to be sure. However, the tank appears to be host to a thriving community of micro-organisms. Quite a lot of small white nematodes, some small white things skitting about over the glass that I reckon are copepods. Also, weird little pods attached to the glass by hair like threads. Don't know what those are. First fish/shrimp to get in here are going to have a feast.

HC is, as feared, slowly melting. Hardly any uprooted yet though so there may be hope.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Nematodes sound like planaria - bit of a pest. AE do a treatment for them which i'm going to try in y 60cm as they're a royal pain!
Be a bit wary of cleaning out your filter too much - this in itself can cause algal bloom if you're too vigorous with the cleaning!
Glad it's going well - and the HC is holding its own!
Matt
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Yep, could well be planaria, too small to tell yet. Have had them in the main tank and, TBH, won't be too fussed if they are. They do pop up from time to time but they've never stuck around for very long. Some reckon they're a danger to shrimp but I've never had that experience. In this tank I expect their presence is down to the melting egeria and no competition. If they don't disappear soon I've got some panacur dewormer liquid suspension that I've used before to take out intestinal nematodes - pretty effective on these guys too. If you want Matt I can dig out the link I have for dosing it.

I was pretty reluctant to touch the filter but glad I did - it was choked with egeria gunk. Will try to leave it well alone for as long as possible.

Cheers
Sajid
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Have made a few minor changes today

226114.jpg


Swapped out some of the redmoor and added some thinner twigs. Second batch of egeria (which was also melted quite badly) has gone and in it's place is some Heteranthera zosterifolia and some Lindernia rotundifolia 'variegated'. Forgot to mention I had added some Didiplis diandra last week (probably even more ambitious than HC but doing ok).

Talking of which, as feared, HC is melting badly:

226111a.jpg


but hanging on near the front where there is most light:

226112.jpg


I've pulled out the H. Angustifolia from the back left as it was blocking out too much light and tucked the frogbit behind the spraybar.

Did some tests this morning and no ammonia but nitrite and nitrate off the charts. Cycling OK I guess.

Fair bit of algae on the glass but not quite sure what. Also, much respect to the common pond snail which is thriving in these toxic conditions (although only a couple of them):

226113.jpg


Right hard little bugger.

Worms appear to have vanished though.
 
Re: Now Lo-Tech nano - now up and running with photos

Right, HC has pretty much given up the ghost now so am going to follow Nayr's advice and go for a moss carpet. Have a big pile of xmas moss sitting in a glass tray on a window sill that I'll use.

Anyone know where I can pick up some slate chips from? Tried my local homebase, which has a big garden centre, but they don't stock them.
 
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